[Southsider2k12]

It was interesting to actually see a relatively tough article on the front page of the paper this weekend, talking about low attendance at the Labor Day festival up at Washington Park. It was sad to see how empty it was up there. It was even sadder to see the Vice Chair Bill Green trying to blame "bad weather". There were some great shows up there as usual, and hardly anyone went. Oktoberfest (of course it was misspelled in the article) used to pack Washington Park. The main lot wasn't even full yesterday, let alone how they used to fill up the grassy areas at Fedder's Alley. This was during the marque show of Duke Tomatoe. Something needs to change up there. I don't know if it is the group running Summerfest organization, or if someone needs to swallow their pride and ask Jaycees to revive the old Oktoberfest, but what they are doing now isn't working.

[Ang]

I went to the Blueberry Festival in Plymouth....it was jam packed, despite the bad weather. It rained pretty hard before we got there and the place was mud, mud, mud. But it was still jam packed.

[Southsider2k12]

Oktoberfest was always packed, no matter what the weather was.

[MCRogers1974]

Time for a complete "do over" in my opinion.

[Oscar Gurtgorter]

I don't know if it is the group running Summerfest organization, or if someone needs to swallow their pride and ask Jaycees to revive the old Oktoberfest, but what they are doing now isn't working.

GREAT IDEA! I can't imagine that Tower, Inc. would ever be interested in coming back. The last administration literally ripped it from their mouths after they greedily thought they had it figured out. It's plain to see they were wrong.
The planning and work those dedicated folks put in was unimaginable. Oktoberfest ran smoothly and made a profit. Other than the parking, I don't know what was the City's take. It's safe to say it's one hell of a lot more than they did these last two seasons.

Hopefully this administration could look into having another professional group take it on.

[Southsider2k12]

GREAT IDEA! I can't imagine that Tower, Inc. would ever be interested in coming back. The last administration literally ripped it from their mouths after they greedily thought they had it figured out. It's plain to see they were wrong.
The planning and work those dedicated folks put in was unimaginable. Oktoberfest ran smoothly and made a profit. Other than the parking, I don't know what was the City's take. It's safe to say it's one hell of a lot more than they did these last two seasons.

Hopefully this administration could look into having another professional group take it on.

Oh I know how it ended before. I would just hope someone could admit their were wrong and take the step to bury the axe. I don't see how you can deem Labor Dayz anything but a massive failure. Once you admit that, you have to look at the differences between now and then. That difference is Jaycees (Tower) before, and the Summerfest group now. At the rate it is going, Bill Greene will soon be able to say he bankrupted two not-for-profit organizations in the MCAS and Summerfest.

[MC Born & Raised]

I was trying to explain to my wife, who is not from MC and never went to Oktoberfest, just how great an event that was. It was THE thing to do every year in Michigan City. It was the one event everyone looked forward to. The Queens fest is now a far, far, far better festival. How sad. I don't have kids, but if I did, I don't know why I'd go down there. There's zero to do. You can always talk me into sitting outside with some cold ones and listening to good music, so that's cool, but all beer vendors even ran out of light beer by the time Duke Tumatoe started. Embarrassing.

And what of that "craft" section? Is it just me or did most of that crap look like it fell off the back of a truck somewhere? There's maybe a quarter of the food vendors that there used to be. Just bad, bad, bad.

[Southsider2k12]

I was trying to explain to my wife, who is not from MC and never went to Oktoberfest, just how great an event that was. It was THE thing to do every year in Michigan City. It was the one event everyone looked forward to. The Queens fest is now a far, far, far better festival. How sad. I don't have kids, but if I did, I don't know why I'd go down there. There's zero to do. You can always talk me into sitting outside with some cold ones and listening to good music, so that's cool, but all beer vendors even ran out of light beer by the time Duke Tumatoe started. Embarrassing.

And what of that "craft" section? Is it just me or did most of that crap look like it fell off the back of a truck somewhere? There's maybe a quarter of the food vendors that there used to be. Just bad, bad, bad.

We took the kids up and let them listen to the music and dance. Really that was about it for them to do.

It is just one of those things where City had a choice on how to handle things, and we chose wrong. We have such a history of that. Picking a prison over a college, running off the Ms Indiana pageant, running off Oktoberfest, turning the Hoosier Slide into glass, and then letting NIPSCO build the worlds biggest eyesore there. I could keep going, but everyone gets my point.

I just wish someone would try to fix this.

[indianamaniac]

Picking a prison over a college...

Show me proof of this... "Heard it on the radio" doesn't count as proof...

[Southsider2k12]

Show me proof of this... "Heard it on the radio" doesn't count as proof...

Even if it isn't true, the fact that was the only one you could pick on means my point still stands. We as a community make some awful decisions. If you'd like another item, Franklin Square. Bonus would be the positioning of the library and City Hall.

[Ang]

The land for ISP was purchased from a guy named Chauncey Blair. He wanted to donate the land to the City of MC to be used as a school. For some reason, the City decided not to accept his offer of free land (I think they didn't like the location) and so out of spite, Mr. Blair sold it to the State for the use of a prison. I believe it was supposed to be for the location of Elston. And the City ended up having to move a cemetary to make way for the school...that cemetary is now Greenwood. I'm surfin the net to try to find a story about it, but I was taught that little tidbit of City History in High School. It was brought up during a discussion of the cemetary that was moved.

[indianamaniac]

Even if it isn't true, the fact that was the only one you could pick on means my point still stands. We as a community make some awful decisions. If you'd like another item, Franklin Square. Bonus would be the positioning of the library and City Hall.

I will not refute the community's penchant for poor decisions, but I have found no proof the story that we had the option of hosting ISP or what would become Ball State University and the powers that be chose the prison because Mr. Pullman didn't want his workforce to become educated. The dates of the two institutions do not correspond at all. I'll admit it is a hell of a story, but until someone provides me with proof, the myth is busted.

Concerning the idea that the original land owner sold the land to the prison out of spite, if true, it would just be more proof that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Ang]

I never heard anything about Ball State. I've only heard what I stated above. I've been trying to find written documentation, but so far haven't found much. At least not on the internet. Maybe the libraray would have something in their archives?
Michelle.......are you out there?

[Michelle]

I never heard anything about Ball State. I've only heard what I stated above. I've been trying to find written documentation, but so far haven't found much. At least not on the internet. Maybe the libraray would have something in their archives?
Michelle.......are you out there?

I've had this question posed to me several times before, and I've never found anything to back up the idea that there was a proposal for a school In the version that it's Ball State or the prison, Indianamaniac is right that the dates don't match up at all. I can't say that it definitely did not happen, but I haven't found anything in the historical record to lend any credence to that idea.

If anyone ever does find anything to suggest it's not a myth, I'm of course very interested in seeing it.

[indianamaniac]

I've had this question posed to me several times before, and I've never found anything to back up the idea that there was a proposal for a school In the version that it's Ball State or the prison, Indianamaniac is right that the dates don't match up at all. I can't say that it definitely did not happen, but I haven't found anything in the historical record to lend any credence to that idea.

If anyone ever does find anything to suggest it's not a myth, I'm of course very interested in seeing it.

In a way, I wish there was some truth to the idea because it would take the cake for the biggest mistake ever in the history of Michigan City, Indiana... If we would've been home to an institution of higher learning the size of Ball State, given our geographic surroundings, it would likely have become a lot larger than it has become in Muncie due to proximity to Chicago and major interstates... Do you think kids would have a problem doing summer school knowing that there was a beach to go to afterwards? Would the economic downturn that most blame on manufacturing abandoning the community ever have occurred? In fact, it might have helped keep manufacturers here.

PNC is growing, but it will never be what a full-fledged university could've been. Do school districts in Bloomington, Lafayette, or Muncie for the matter seem to be hurting for money? If they do, I highly doubt it is anywhere in the same neighborhood of what we face here today. Most all of what plagues us in Michigan City and LaPorte County never would've been an issue had a college been built here 125 years ago instead of the Indiana State Prison.

[Ang]

I emailed the Indiana Historic Bureau regarding the ISP story to see if they have any information about it. I'll let you know when/if I hear back from them.

[Ang]

I heard back from the Historical Society, and this is what they had to say....

Angelique,
Thank you for contacting IHB. Staff here at the Historical Bureau have never heard this story, and my colleagues and I did a quick check of the resources here in our office and found nothing noteworthy. Genealogy resources suggest Chauncey Blair was a young teenager at the time of this transaction (not of the age of majority and able to enter into a sale), though it is possible that the Blair you’re referring to was a less-famous cousin, parent, uncle, etc. with the same name.

My guess here, based on our very brief research, is that this story is fiction, but if you want to be certain, I’d recommend contacting Indiana State Archives, for institutional documents for the State Prison. In some cases, the documents they hold have institutional histories or finding aids—this would help you to confirm that the sale was actually initiated by or involving land originally owned by Chauncey Blair. Sales records should be a fairly simple and quick query, and if they confirm that bit of the story, you might want to invest the time to search for clues from the correspondence in the records about the terms of the sale.

Contacting the State Prison would also be advised, as they appear to have a written history of their institution available—it’s unclear whether this document is unique and available on-site only, or something they could send to you digitally.

Best,
Aimee

Aimee Rose Formo, Website Manager & History Education Specialist
Indiana Historical Bureau
140 North Senate Avenue - Room 130
Indianapolis, Indiana 46204
Phone 317-232-2989

So, IndianaManiac, you were correct to challenge this rumor and so far, there is absolutely no proof it ever happened.

[Southsider2k12]

You guys have peaked my interest. I started comparing time lines, I think IM is right about the legend being bunk. The timelines don't match up at all, given that Ball wasn't founded until 1880. But given that, I emailed both the history department at Ball State U, and Ball Company, to see if they knew anything related to this legend. I will post if I get any info. Maybe we can either prove or disprove an urban legend!

[Southsider2k12]

After some random googling, this would work with the timeline. 1918 was when the Ball family donated the money to save what turned into Ball State U. I wonder if this could be the time period being referred to?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_State_Prison

At the turn of the century, the prison was increased to twice its size. By 1930 prisoners were placed in two cell houses that contained 230 and 340 cells respectively, and three dormitories, which were considered among the best in the country.[8] During that same time period, 900 acres (3.6 km2) of farmland were in use by the prison on land leased by the state.

[Ang]

One thing to remember is that there were two state prisons at that time. The first was located in Crawfordsville (I think-or it was somewhere else and moved to Crawfordsville) and the 2nd was MC. Lots of documentation about Chauncey Blair selling the land to the state for the Michigan City location, but not too much I saw regarding the 1st location. Of course, my main focus was MC at the time I did my research.
Could it be the rumor was actually regarding the 1st prison? When people heard "ISP" they just assumed it was ours?