[Southsider2k12]

I wonder if this means another reduction in the boat fund locally? This could be a disaster. I am going to send an email to Scott Pelath for clarification. I will let you all know what I find out.

http://www.miamicountylife.com/articles/20...news/1state.txt

State News

Panel approves tax breaks for 3 casinos


Tuesday, February 17, 2009

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - A House committee approved a bill Monday night to give temporary tax breaks to three Indiana casinos, including new ones at the state's two pari-mutuel horse tracks.

The House Ways and Means Committee voted 17-7 for a bill to give tax breaks on wagering revenue for Blue Chip Casino on Lake Michigan, and casinos at Hoosier Park in Anderson and Indiana Live at Shelbyville. The bill now goes to the full House for consideration.

Advocates said the casinos are struggling and need help to stay in business. Critics said many other businesses in the state are facing hard times in the sagging economy, and it was not fair to single out the casinos for special favor.

The General Assembly passed legislation in 2007 allowing Hoosier Park and Indiana Live - then called Indiana Downs - 2,000 slot machines each at their pari-mutuel venues.

Track officials said revenue from the slots was needed to keep their tracks and the horse racing in Indiana viable, and they agreed to pay $250 million each over two years to get the slots, as well as spend at least $100 million each to build the new casinos. The state imposed a graduated tax on revenue from slots at the so-called ‘‘racinos,'' which opened last summer.

Under the bill, tax rates on the slot revenue at the tracks would be cut 5 percentage points for each of the next five years, reducing their combined annual tax liability by about $18 million per year.

John Keeler, a lobbyist for Hoosier Park, said its parent company, Centaur LLC, was under severe financial distress and was paying high interest for loans it obtained to pay the slot licensing fees. He also said the track and the state had misjudged revenue projections from the slots.

‘‘Quite frankly, the tracks blew it and so did the state,'' he said.

The bill also would provide a $15 million tax deduction to Blue Chip for one year, to be phased down and out over five years. The deduction is projected to cost the state about $5 million in lost tax revenue the first year and less in subsequent years, said Democratic Rep. Scott Pelath of Michigan City, the bill's author.

Blue Chip's business has taken a hit since the opening of the Four Winds casino in Michigan, which opened in August 2007 about 10 miles from Blue Chip and is owned by the Pokagon Band of Potawatomi Indians. Blue Chip saw its monthly revenue fall from $26.7 million in July 2007 to $16.1 million a year later - a decline of nearly 40 percent.

Ryan Soultz, a lobbyist representing Blue Chip, said the tax deductions would allow the casino to enhance its marketing efforts and draw more customers.

Several lawmakers who voted for the bill said they did so with reservations, but said casino revenue was important to the state - especially during this recession - and they wanted to keep the bill alive in some form.

Rep. Randy Borror, R-Fort Wayne, said the bill sent a wrong message to other businesses that were struggling. He was among the seven who voted against the bill.

[Southsider2k12]

This is Scott's very quick reply.

It's very modest and should not have any impact on local revenues. On
the other hand, it might help save some jobs.

The intent is simply to give them a shot to win back some customers from
Four Winds. As you may have read, the deduction is phased out and
reduced to zero over a five year period.

Obviously, if Blue Chip ever ceases to operate, the revenue and jobs
loss is 100-percent. That's the reason that I think some targeted
assistance at critical junctures is not unreasonable.

[IndyTransplant]

I read about this in the Indianapolis Star before it was posted here. I was of mixed feelings as I know a few other casinos are struggling here. Majestic Star and Ameristar have lost business to Horsheshoe since it opened. However Blue Chip is a very important contributor to MC in both local tax dollars and employment. They (Boyd) took a huge risk in this economy by expanding and building a destination convention hotel that fits well within Michigan City's tourist image. Since the two other places mentioned are the race tracks that also just made huge investments (although I disagreed with getting away from the riverboat requirement), perhaps the bill is aimed at helping those who took a risk and expanded to create more jobs and ultimately more revenue for Indiana.

My understandng of the bill is that they are temporarily lowering the percentage these casinos are required to pay to the state. This would not affect the dollars paid to MC. If anything, it would ultimately result in larger revenues and increase the amounts paid to MC.

So although I am against the idea of government favoring one business over another, I am a new and loyal MC resident and see the benefits for this city. Besides that is the way our government (both state and federal) has worked for decades and I for one am at least glad that MC is one of the areas to benefit this time.

[ChickenCityRoller]

They broke ground on that project long before the economy started to tank. I don't really agree on giving tax breaks to a business that makes it's money from people's vices but maybe that's just me.

[IndyTransplant]

They broke ground on that project long before the economy started to tank. I don't really agree on giving tax breaks to a business that makes it's money from people's vices but maybe that's just me.

It is true that they broke ground before the economy totally tanked. However Boyd did suspend the building of another project in Las Vegas after the economy tanked, but had enough faith in this one to continue despite the economy. It is better than having a half built building on the landscape and I believe will contribute much to MC's economy through conventions and attracting more tourists to our city.

On your other point, casinos can only be visited by adults who can make their own choices and it is their right to seek entertainment in any legal form. You essentially lost that fight when Indiana started the gambling issue by enacting a state run lottery years ago and legalized charitable gambling. That opened the door to legalized gambling in many forms in this state.

Also since people have many different vices (or habits that others might consider vices), IMO it is hard to point fingers at others. There are some vices or habits such as eating lots of fatty food, addictions to shopping and more that do not often get much criticism. Many businesses also contribute to these vices or habits. I will be the first to admit that I have many vices and since I am an adult, it is my responsibility to see that they are handled responsibly.

One last point, I personally wish the government (in whatever form) would stay out of the way of legal businesses and neither benefit nor penalize them. However THAT is a fight I lost many years ago.

I do appreciate that we all have our own opinions and at the least we still have the right of free speech in this country. Is that not what this forum is all about? Thanks for your input ChickenCityRoller.

[Southsider2k12]

http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=47877.64

Pelath bill aims to give Blue Chip, other casinos tax breaks

Laurie Wink
The News-Dispatch

INDIANAPOLIS - Blue Chip Casino and two other Indiana casinos would receive temporary tax breaks in a bill approved Monday by the House Ways and Means Committee.

State Rep. Scott Pelath, D-Michigan City, is vice chair of the committee and authored the bill. He said the state would lose $5.25 million the first year, decreasing about $1 million per year until it phased out completely in 2013.

Blue Chip would get a tax deduction for free chips they give to new customers, Pelath said. They usually get taxed on the money they give away.

"The legislation would simply allow a temporary deduction for that marketing tool," Pelath said. "The help for Blue Chip would be modest and temporary."

Ryan Soultz, a lobbyist for Blue Chip, said the tax deductions would allow the casino to enhance its marketing efforts and draw more customers. Parent company Boyd Gaming invested $130 million to expand Blue Chip with a 22-story hotel, spa and convention center that opened in January.

Blue Chip's business has been down since the August 2007 opening of Four Winds Casino Resort in nearby New Buffalo, Mich. Four Winds is owned by the Pokagon Band of Potawatomi Indians.

Blue Chip's monthly revenue fell from $26.7 million in July 2007 to $16.1 million a year later, a nearly 40 percent drop.

"I simply want to give the employees a shot to win back some customers from a direct competitor that is regulated and taxed to a far lesser degree," Pelath said.

The bill, passed by a 17-7 vote, also gives tax breaks on wagering revenue for casinos at Hoosier Park in Anderson and Indiana Live at Shelbyville.

Supporters of the bill said casino revenue is important to the state, and casinos need help to stay in business. Critics said many other businesses in the state are facing hard times, and it is not fair to give special treatment to casinos.

The bill now goes to the full House for consideration.

Contact Laurie Wink at lwink@thenewsdispatch.com.

[IndyTransplant]

http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=47877.64

Thanks for the update. I did not realize that they get taxed on the money they give away to promote their business. I think most businesses can take that as a deduction (Public relations or advertising expense). Although I am an accounting software trainer, I am not an accountant. Is my thinking correct?

[ChickenCityRoller]

It is true that they broke ground before the economy totally tanked. However Boyd did suspend the building of another project in Las Vegas after the economy tanked, but had enough faith in this one to continue despite the economy. It is better than having a half built building on the landscape and I believe will contribute much to MC's economy through conventions and attracting more tourists to our city.


I didn't know about the project in Vegas. I did a quick google search and found that construction ceased in August of 08. The price tag for the project was 4 Billion dollars. In comparison, the M.C. casino appears to be a drop in the bucket at 150mil. http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/echelon_place.htm

I agree with you that the Casino has drawn more tourism to the city. But why not draw tourists here with the reason the town has always been an attraction, the lake and beaches. I've been to the casino a couple times. It appears that a lot of these people aren't in a position to gamble in the first place.


On your other point, casinos can only be visited by adults who can make their own choices and it is their right to seek entertainment in any legal form. You essentially lost that fight when Indiana started the gambling issue by enacting a state run lottery years ago and legalized charitable gambling. That opened the door to legalized gambling in many forms in this state.



I agree with you. We're all big boys and girls and should be able to make the "right" decisions. The problem is I look at the casino as an enabler to peoples disease. If I gambled, I'd save a couple grand and go to Vegas knowing damn well I'm not going to come back with a penny. At the Blue Chip, there are a lot of people who go there to double thier paycheck only to be terribly let down. I personally know a handful of people who's lives were destroyed by the casino. Again, it's really thier own fault and I fully believe in freedom of choice, I just don't like having it in my backyard. Don't forget about the stories like the woman who locked her two infants in her car with the windows up when it was 90 degrees outside or my favorite, the guy who doused himself and his car with gas and committed suicide in the parking lot after gambling away his families savings of 350,000 dollars. Funny how we don't hear much about those stories in the paper, huh?

Also since people have many different vices (or habits that others might consider vices), IMO it is hard to point fingers at others. There are some vices or habits such as eating lots of fatty food, addictions to shopping and more that do not often get much criticism. Many businesses also contribute to these vices or habits. I will be the first to admit that I have many vices and since I am an adult, it is my responsibility to see that they are handled responsibly.



I like ice cream.

One last point, I personally wish the government (in whatever form) would stay out of the way of legal businesses and neither benefit nor penalize them. However THAT is a fight I lost many years ago.

I do appreciate that we all have our own opinions and at the least we still have the right of free speech in this country. Is that not what this forum is all about? Thanks for your input ChickenCityRoller.

[kharris]

I think we have to be careful of trying to impose our own standards and beliefs on others. What I think I'm hearing here ( and I apologize if my interpretation is wrong) is because you won't gamble your money away then no one else should either, even though you did state that everyone has the freedom of choice. Don't forget that it was a majority vote of the community that okayed a casino being built here, and since we do still live in a democracy, the majority rules. We can't kepp all of the people happy all of the time. With all of this being said, I do at times go to the casino for dinner, but I do not frequent the boat in order to gamble. Choice made!

As far as the issues of children being left in cars and an individual setting himself on fire after losing ... it you owned a business you would not want the negative news surrounding that business printed either. Just an observation.

[ChickenCityRoller]

As far as the issues of children being left in cars and an individual setting himself on fire after losing ... it you owned a business you would not want the negative news surrounding that business printed either. Just an observation.

You mean like the stuff that's going on with the Olive Garden?



Let me get back to square one. If the stinking Casino is going to get a break, then ALL businesses in M.C. should get a break. There, I said it.

[IndyTransplant]

I agree with you. We're all big boys and girls and should be able to make the "right" decisions. The problem is I look at the casino as an enabler to peoples disease. If I gambled, I'd save a couple grand and go to Vegas knowing damn well I'm not going to come back with a penny. At the Blue Chip, there are a lot of people who go there to double thier paycheck only to be terribly let down.

Fast food places, restaurants and groceries enable overeaters. Retail stores enable shopaholics. Bars and liquor stores enable alcoholics. There are always going to be people who do not act responsibly and take many things to excess. Do we close all of the businesses since by their very exsistance they can be used by people who are not responsible? Do you also not want these types of businesses in your backyard?

Blue Chip, horse racing tracks, and other forms of gambling are meant to be entertainment venues. If some people go to Blue Chip to double their paycheck they are not thinking or acting responsibly.

In full disclosure, and I am sure this will not come as a surprise, I am a customer of Blue Chip. I am not a slots player or even a regular table game player, but it would be no different if I were. I play in the poker room and enjoy a very sociable time with friends I have made there. I have a budget which includes entertainment dollars. I spend some of my entertainment dollars at Blue Chips and others at the movies or restaurants and pubs locally. There are times I lose some or occasionally even all of the dollars I took into the poker room. If you use the term "Lost" as meaning I spent my money for entertainment, then I have also "lost" my money when I go into a movie theatre or buy a meal or a drink at a local establishment. I do not consider them lost dollars. I received entertainment value out of all of them (except maybe the two times I went to IHOP - sorry another thread). However I do not take more dollars than I have allotted for my entertainment and I don't use dollars needed elsewhere. When my budgeted entertainment dollars are used up, I have to wait until I earn more to go out again. Why should I be deprived of any of these forms of entertainment because someone else does not act responsibly?

Finally just as food for thought.....the odds of winning the lottery are far worse than any of the odds on games at Blue Chips. However I know many people who purchase lottery tickets weekly who spend as much as I do at Blue Chips in the same time period.( Ok my secret is out - I will never be known as a High Roller. LOL) Now to me that would be truly lost money since I do not see the entertainment value there. However to each his own (form of entertainment) and I do not feel I have a right to tell others how to spend their disposable dollars. I also do not know by looking at people how many disposable dollars they might possess. We have all known people or currently know people who have gambled away, drank away, shopped away or otherwise irresponsibly lost their money. (Just as we also have known people who were not responsible with their children or even their pets.) I am not unfeeling, but there is very little anyone can do to stop other people who do not act responsibly.

[IndyTransplant]

I didn't know about the project in Vegas. I did a quick google search and found that construction ceased in August of 08. The price tag for the project was 4 Billion dollars. In comparison, the M.C. casino appears to be a drop in the bucket at 150mil. http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/echelon_place.htm

Thanks. That is probably the project I was referring to although I thought it was named something like City Centre as it was to be a retail, office, hotel, casino, etc complex.

[kharris]

You mean like the stuff that's going on with the Olive Garden?



Let me get back to square one. If the stinking Casino is going to get a break, then ALL businesses in M.C. should get a break. There, I said it.

I am an M.C. business ... so I feel your pain and I would tend to agree. In fact I am one who would tend to think that tax breaks to tax payers might go a long way to helping the economy ............. but then that's just me.

[IndyTransplant]

You mean like the stuff that's going on with the Olive Garden?

Let me get back to square one. If the stinking Casino is going to get a break, then ALL businesses in M.C. should get a break. There, I said it.

And you said it very well too . You and I can agree that is an ideal scenario! As I said earlier, I wish that government would stay out of the way of business (benefit or penalty), but since that is realistically not going to happen at least MC might benefit from this.

My other comment is if all Blue Chips is gaining is being able to deduct their giveaway dollars for a few years, I think other businesses may already have that ability as a public relations or advertising expense. Any accountants out there? Please chime in.

[Southsider2k12]

http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...&TM=32191.8

Outrage to give casino tax break
Outrage to give casino tax break

I am amazed that [State Rep. Scott] Pelath would even consider for a moment giving any casino a tax break ... for what? They make millions in profit as it is!

It's as bad as Congress giving money to the banks for the fraud that started this mess! It should not matter what Four Winds pays in taxes. This tax break situation is way out of hand and it really STINKS!

Jerome Janci

Michigan City