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> Chamber to hold interviews?, Is the Chamber being used to manipulate us?
lovethiscity
post Mar 3 2007, 08:43 PM
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Tim Bietry and the Chambers political action committee is to begin candidate interviews, followed by a couple of public forums. They will then endorse candidates for the primary. Why do we need a group that has strongly endorsed mayor Oberlie, while opposing certain council members just as firmly pretending to do unbiassed service like this? Any candidate invited to such a forum would have to be nuts to accept.

This is a letter from the president (Tim Bietry) in last Decembers Lake View magazine:

Fall means a lot of things: leaves change, temperatures drop, football replaces baseball, and pools close while skis, ice fishing gear, and snow blowers all get unpacked and dusted off. Fall also means something more important than all of these things combined. Fall means election time. For this year, the school board elections will be critically important for all of us. The Chamber of Commerce, through its Governmental/Legislative Division, invited all of the candidates to an interview to gauge their level of interest and their perspective on the schools and how to make them better. Almost all of the candidates participated. As of this writing, the interviews have not yet occurred. As of your reading today, we have already conducted the interviews and I imagine that the Chamber has already published a list of candidates that the Chamber feels are worthy of recommendation to you as the electorate. Please take this recommendation to heart. The Chamber of Commerce is dedicated to the interests of business. Effective schools are the foundation of a strong, vibrant, business community. We ask that you support candidates that are supportive of the community's Strategic Plan. If we enthusiastically support the Strategic Plan, we are supporting what is best for ALL of our students. Lets elect a board that feels the same way.
Next year, we will elect (or reelect) a Mayor and all nine members of the City Council. The Chamber is solidly behind Mayor Oberlie. He has shown a dedication to what is important to Michigan City and its public. He is supportive of the schools plan and has been a strong advocate for expansion of existing business and the recruitment of new business opportunities. Our City Council is an area of concern. There are members who have not supported the Early Learning Center, despite overwhelming evidence that it is a sound strategy to address the lack of preschool preparedness for many of our youngsters. There are also members who have built barriers to economic development, who have voted against promising improvements, and who have allowed petty rivalries and personal vendettas to cloud their judgment when making decisions that are important to our community. Too often “outstanding” has been second to “grandstanding.” It is not too early to start compiling data on who should be supported, and whom we should encourage to move on to other responsibilities. The City Council is an important part of our local government. We deserve mature, responsible, leadership in this body of officials. The test for whether proposals should be supported or not should be “what is best for the city at-large.” We can not allow
personal vendettas or grand-standing to cloud their decision making. If you haven’t voted in recent elections, make sure that you are registered to vote next year. We need to let our elected officials know that we are watching carefully and waiting with much anticipation for the time when we can hold them fast for their behaviors and voting records
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Ang
post Mar 3 2007, 10:40 PM
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QUOTE(lovethiscity @ Mar 3 2007, 07:43 PM) *

Tim Bietry and the Chambers political action committee is to begin candidate interviews, followed by a couple of public forums. They will then endorse candidates for the primary. Why do we need a group that has strongly endorsed mayor Oberlie, while opposing certain council members just as firmly pretending to do unbiassed service like this? Any candidate invited to such a forum would have to be nuts to accept.


LoveThisCity, Upon reading the article that you posted here, I have to ask, "How can you say that?" The only name mentioned was that of Mayor Oberlie. Beyond that, the refernces to the City Council are general statements. There are no specific names mentioned, nor did Mr. Bietry state specific instances. Also, I see that the Chamber is endorsing the Mayor, but I don't see where they have already decided which Council candidates to endorse or oppose.
You complained in another post about people "attacking" Council Members and it appeared to me you were angry about that. But, as I read your current post, I see an "attack" against the Chamber of Commerce, and specifically Mr. Bietry, by you.
Your user name is LoveThis City. If that is the case, try to broaden your thinking and actually look at what has been going on in the City Council lately. Even I, way out here in Wyoming, can see that there needs to be change, Ray Charles could see it.



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lovethiscity
post Mar 4 2007, 07:49 AM
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, the refernces to the City Council are general statements. There are no specific names mentioned, nor did Mr. Bietry state specific instances. Also, I see that the Chamber is endorsing the Mayor, but I don't see where they have already decided which Council candidates to endorse or oppose.
You complained in another post about people "attacking" Council Members and it appeared to me you were angry about that. But, as I read your current post, I see an "attack" against the Chamber of Commerce, and specifically Mr. Bietry, by you.
Your user name is LoveThis City. If that is the case, try to broaden your thinking and actually look at what has been going on in the City Council lately. Even I, way out here in Wyoming, can see that there needs to be change, Ray Charles could see it.
[/quote]


General statements construed as factual is my point. Reality is that less then 100 pieces of legislation passed through the council chambers in 2006. Of them 87 passed 71 of these by unanimous vote only 6 pieces of legislation failed to pass 2 of these were gas stations that failed by unanimous vote both of these were overturned by an appointed board. I look at the facts and find it very difficult to see the roadblock to growth by the city council.
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Informed
post Mar 4 2007, 09:47 AM
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Have to agree with ANG here. Would add that factual does not appear to be a part of lovecity’s posts throughout this site; rather he or she obviously has a personal agenda, and seems to be campaigning for an incumbent or more on the council. Lovecity seems to be a pen pal and email swapper with Mr. Jankowski perhaps???

I do not believe lovecity has an understanding of government and its operations or the goals and mission of the Chamber. The council has both ordinances and resolutions that come before it, and there is a difference – not all are pieces of legislation. Many matters are very routine in nature, such as budget transfer, or a minor correction to something, etc., so I am confused as to the statistical point he is trying to make as it pertains to progress and encouraging investment for M..C. Would also be interested to see the statistics on if matters voted down are unanimous, since he seems to point out an importance on the voting statistics? My guess is the bulk are 5-4, if not all.

I believe many feel it’s the non-routine matters before the council, and the progressive matters that are most important to investment and moving the City forward, which are frequently voted down at the council level, no matter who brings such before the council – Mayor, citizen, or developer, and no matter how many annually as one can be enough to do the damage, and that’s the point of those who seek change at the council level of a couple incumbents and the most obvious position of the Chamber.

Lovecity, besides a couple negative and unprofessional council members, is there anyone you like or any level of anything in Michigan City that you actually like or see any positives with whatsoever? Seems to me you may want to consider moving or changing your moniker to hatecity!
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Roger Kaputnik
post Mar 4 2007, 11:22 AM
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Here are some positives:

People have history here and want to stay here.

Strong church presence.

Mix of folks.

Now let us add the physical attributes to this place:

Unmatched location on the Lake.

Trail Creek.

Proximity to Dunes state and fed parks.

Feel free to add what I have left out.


My frustration stems from the history of inaction, inabliity to achieve movement ahead, and vertical divisions that have characterized MC for a generation. Many of the people in gov't and nongov't leadership positions now have been around during all that time. Yet they are rarely held to account--it is always "someone else" who hindered the brillian plan du jour. I just say it is time for change.


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RedDevilMC
post Mar 4 2007, 12:16 PM
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I agree with Roger. Growing up here and making the decision to bring my kids back here was hard. I told myself years ago that I would never move back and my siblings still say it. The reason, opportunity for growth as an adult. We were happy as kids here. As an adult you have more responsibilities. You have to find employment, find a great school system, etc. Many feel that you can't find that here.

I believe anyone who runs for public office wants (or at least should want) a safe and productive community. Common sense would tell you a safe community with jobs for everyone. I don't believe the Chamber should be involved in an interview process to pick candidates for endorsement. I think all candidates want businesses to thrive. This is going to be a positive experience for me regardless of the forums, interviews, debates, etc. I plan to participate in as many open or closed door opportunities as possible. This will be a learning experience for many of us "newbies".

As for the Chamber, I hope this isn't a rubber stamp session. I would like to know and I will inquire on who are the participants on the Political Action Committee. I want to know their basic philosophy on business and the direction of Michigan City. I really haven't seen a stance by anyone on the "North End". Are they going to select their endorsements based on that or what? I'm just wondering.

Angie
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Ang
post Mar 4 2007, 09:04 PM
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LoveThisCity, the article made general statements on factual events. There was nothing "construed" and I believe it was extremely well written and non-biased. I, however, will take a general remark from the article you posted and expand on it; when you have a council member who uses his new position as President to remove another council member from certain committees without discussing it privately with the ousted council member first is a roadblock to growth. Instead, the ousted council member finds out about his demise through public forum. In my opinion, that shows cowardice and poor leadership. It's unfortunate that this council member is running unopposed. Even though the ousted Councilman created a roadblock to growth through bad personal choices and allowed his personal problems to affect his professional image, he did deserve better than that.
I think the Chamber wants to pose of series of questions to the current candidates to look for personal stability as well as political forum. They don't want to get duped, so to speak.


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Southsider2k12
post Mar 5 2007, 07:34 AM
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For what its worth, the Chamber did hold these same type of interviews for candidates in the school board race, so its not like this is a new thing.

Their motivation is clear, especially when you look at the motivation of their members. They the small business owners of MC, and their primary motivation is to make sure that their businesses are as healthy as possible, and they do not see their needs getting met. Personally I am glad to see them stepping to the forefront in areas where they see leadership lacking, and a defined vision and unity going forward is something I do not see right now.

Tim Bietry and the Chamber did an excellent job at stepping in to the Eugene Sweeney mess between the teachers and the school system, and turning it into a positive with the Strategic Plan. Personally I believe if they are willing to put the time effort and research into finding a vision for MC's future, which isn't including my tax dollars, I am all for it. I also believe it is well within their right to request interviews with each of the candidates to determine which ones they see as fulfilling their needs best. Groups do this all of the time, and if we had more organizations taking an active roll in a positive manner, instead of complaining and waiting for something to happen, we would be well on our way to recovery.

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lovethiscity
post Mar 5 2007, 07:35 AM
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I do not believe lovecity has an understanding of government and its operations or the goals and mission of the Chamber. The council has both ordinances and resolutions that come before it, and there is a difference – not all are pieces of legislation. Many matters are very routine in nature, such as budget transfer, or a minor correction to something, etc., so I am confused as to the statistical point he is trying to make as it pertains to progress and encouraging investment for M..C. Would also be interested to see the statistics on if matters voted down are unanimous, since he seems to point out an importance on the voting statistics? My guess is the bulk are 5-4, if not all.

Here is the breakdown on the 6 failed votes

the two gas stations fail 0-9
one vote failed due to a tie vote
one failed 2-7
one failed 3-6
one failed 1-8
Here is the breakdown of the split but passed votes
7-1 6-3 6-1 5-2 8-1 5-4 6-3 5-3 5-4 7-2 7-2 6-3 8-1 5-4 6-3 6-2

It would appear to show a healthy difference of opinion, not obstruction.
maybe informed could actualy show me the obstructions the council has layed. I just can't see them. Disagreement in governent is good as long as a middle ground can be found.
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JHeath
post Mar 5 2007, 10:40 AM
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I agree that having the Chamber interview the candidates is a great idea. However, it would be nice to see an unbiased party offer a public forum for the mayoral candidates as well (since T. Bietry and the Chamber have already publicly decreed their support for Mr. Oberlie).
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Ang
post Mar 5 2007, 10:50 AM
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QUOTE(JHeath @ Mar 5 2007, 09:40 AM) *

However, it would be nice to see an unbiased party offer a public forum for the mayoral candidates as well (since T. Bietry and the Chamber have already publicly decreed their support for Mr. Oberlie).


Jenny, I agree that was a little premature of the Chamber. According to the article, it was written and published before the others had a chance to even file their candidacy. Hmmm......
Looks like there might be a little "good ol' Boy" thing going on there.
Well, maybe after these interviews, the Chamber will reconsider their position. I just hope they look at all the candidates with an open mind. It would only be fair.


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Southsider2k12
post Mar 5 2007, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE(Ang @ Mar 5 2007, 10:50 AM) *

Jenny, I agree that was a little premature of the Chamber. According to the article, it was written and published before the others had a chance to even file their candidacy. Hmmm......
Looks like there might be a little "good ol' Boy" thing going on there.
Well, maybe after these interviews, the Chamber will reconsider their position. I just hope they look at all the candidates with an open mind. It would only be fair.


Also keep in mind, a solid part of being a smart voter, is understanding what is going on around you. Now when you see the Chamber's endorsements, you have to keep this in mind. Personally I hope the Chamber reconsiders its endorsement and brings in all of the candidates for interviews. It might well turn out that they still fell Chuck Oberlie is still the best endorsement for them, and that's fine. I would just like to see them do the right thing.
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Max Main
post Mar 8 2007, 10:37 AM
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The chamber should not be endorsing candidates so darn early. they should offer themselves as a neutral third party to host fora (that's forums, by the way) so they can ask and probe the candidates as to issues the Chamber is interested in. Kind of like the League of Women Voters does, or used to. In any case, they should at LEAST wait until all the candidates are in and filing to run has closed. Personally, I think they should stay neutral but ask and probe.
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Ang
post Mar 8 2007, 07:26 PM
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I totally agree with Max!


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Southsider2k12
post Mar 9 2007, 09:32 AM
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QUOTE(Max Main @ Mar 8 2007, 10:37 AM) *

The chamber should not be endorsing candidates so darn early. they should offer themselves as a neutral third party to host fora (that's forums, by the way) so they can ask and probe the candidates as to issues the Chamber is interested in. Kind of like the League of Women Voters does, or used to. In any case, they should at LEAST wait until all the candidates are in and filing to run has closed. Personally, I think they should stay neutral but ask and probe.


I believe the candidate filings have closed, but I do agree with your post. I would like to see them wait until they have conducted interviews before endorsing anyone.
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Ang
post Mar 9 2007, 10:27 AM
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QUOTE(southsider2k7 @ Mar 9 2007, 08:32 AM) *

I believe the candidate filings have closed, but I do agree with your post. I would like to see them wait until they have conducted interviews before endorsing anyone.


Max's comment was in response to the article posted by lovethiscity (earlier in this thread) from the Chamber that was written who knows when and printed in December in which the Chamber endorsed Mayor Oberlie.


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HITMAN
post Mar 9 2007, 07:16 PM
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QUOTE(southsider2k7 @ Mar 9 2007, 09:32 AM) *

I believe the candidate filings have closed, but I do agree with your post. I would like to see them wait until they have conducted interviews before endorsing anyone.
It sounds as if lovethiscity should start a topic of his own regarding what council candidates he is backing. Instead he wants to bash others opinions.
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Max Main
post Mar 12 2007, 12:14 PM
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Hitman, I noticed your avatar. Here is my favorite bumper sticker, which, by the way, is copyrighted:


IF YOU CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH, YOU AIN'T AMERICAN!






Get it?
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