[JHeath]

http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...ArticleID=15358

7/2/2008 11:00:00 AM
Is Winning More Important Than Letting All Kids Play?

I attended my 9-year-old granddaughter's softball game last night at Condon Field in Trail Creek. I have also attended some of her other games, as well as my grandson's T-ball games. He is 7 years old. I am appalled at how these leagues are run. It appears that it is so important to the coaches to win that they are pretty selective as to who gets to play, and some children spend much more than their fair share sitting on the bench.

These children, as well as their parents, devote a lot of time and effort to making sure they attend practices as well as games. It is true that some children are naturally more athletic and develop physically at a faster rate than others and thus demonstrate more ability early on, but at this young age the others can catch up if given an opportunity.

Why don't League rules mandate that all children receive equal playing time? If the League mandated that all coaches abide by this rule, it would have an equalizing effect and all the teams would be playing on equal ground.

Our grown children who have moved to other communities say that their rules regulating young players mandate that all children participate equally.

How do children improve if they don't get to play? I applaud the coaches who do treat their team members fairly, and if the League would set and enforce the rules they would not be penalized for doing what all of the coaches should be doing. I think it is time for coaches to grow up and put their own egos aside and exhibit some fair play.

Sharon Raab

Michigan City

[JHeath]

http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=40017.77

7/6/2008 11:00:00 AM
Coaches Twisting Purpose Of Kids' Baseball
A Field of Dreams - that's the way the all-American sport of baseball used to be considered, before parents and coaches spent more time critiquing our children's play and screaming at them for every small mistake, like dropping a ball.

The win-above-everything attitude of the adults involved in the league has led to the unfair practice of allowing board members to handpick their own teams. The pressure put on the children on these teams is tremendous. The children on the other teams are consistently disappointed and chastised for losing against stacked teams.

In the Michigan City Parks and Recreation leagues, board members are also allowed to be coaches. As coaches, they are able to take advantage of the so-called "drafting" guidelines they set up as board members. The members of this group include some major egoists who will only coach (dictate over) a team of the "best" players, as determined and chosen by them.

If the teams were more evenly selected, or at least not purposely weighted, the kids could learn about fair competition.

Some of us come to the games to support, cheer and applaud our kids, in a sport they enjoy doing no matter how good or bad they may be, not to degrade our children for making the worst decision of their life, like throwing the ball to the wrong person.

Hats off to those coaches who try to make the game fun while teaching the sport and sportsmanship. Thank you for sending my child home with a smile on his face, win or lose, instead of tears in his eyes.

Upset yet supportive parent,

Jamie Miller

Michigan City

http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=40017.77

7/7/2008 11:00:00 AM
Children's Coaches Shouldn't Forget Kindness
We just read Sharon Raab's letter about local Little Leagues and their policy of winning over letting every child play ["Is winning more important than letting all kids play?" Wednesday]. We think she's right on!

In Chicago our 5-year-old grandson is in a T-ball city league coached by his father. The rules are simple: No one keeps score. The children take as many times to hit the ball off the tee as each needs. An inning ends when every player has been at bat or there are three outs, which is rare. (Defense is NOT their game.) They play five innings each and go home proud to have played their best.

It was a joy for us to see the coaches' gentleness and patience with their players. The opposing coach even called our grandson's coach and father to ask if he could spare three of his players as too many of his team were on vacation this week.

We hope our city's coaches are reading Sharon's wisdom, not just for the sake of athletics, but for learning kindness, the real winner.

Kathy Zmuda

Long Beach

[JHeath]

And now..."Soundoff" comments regarding these letters:

Posted: Friday, July 04, 2008
Article comment by: Sue

What has happened to this country and competition? We can't keep score, we can't have one valedictorian or someone's feeling will be hurt. What happened to the kids working hard so they can play? The only ones that complain are the parents and the grandparents. If the kids aren't happy they won't join next year.

Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2008
Article comment by: Erin Phillips

I totally agree. These kids are on those teams to have fun Not to sit on the bench wishing they could play!!!

[Roger Kaputnik]

Not keeping score? Where are we? Suburban Minnesota? That said, the point is taken about the PT of each player.

[JHeath]

There is one point that requires clarification here.

Why don't League rules mandate that all children receive equal playing time? If the League mandated that all coaches abide by this rule, it would have an equalizing effect and all the teams would be playing on equal ground.

Lakefront Little League is affiliated with the National Little League Baseball organization, which dictates most of the rules. One of the rules, especially with the t-ball teams, is that all players must play at least 2 full innings. The girls 10& under softball is run in the same manner.

That being said, how do these folks expect coaches to run a team with many of the kids saying they're tired, or don't want to play? Or what about the kids who don't show up to practice...or who show a complete lack of interest and focus on the field? What about rewarding the kids who do want to play, and who play very well?

Between my husband and I, we coach 3 teams (one t-ball, he assists with a 10 & under softball, and we're heavily involved with the Challenger teams), so I see all of this firsthand. We do our best ot make sure we follow the rules and teach the kids fair play. I have to admit...it's very frustrating when I see comments like those written in the Anvil Chorus.

[Southsider2k12]

There is one point that requires clarification here.
Lakefront Little League is affiliated with the National Little League Baseball organization, which dictates most of the rules. One of the rules, especially with the t-ball teams, is that all players must play at least 2 full innings. The girls 10& under softball is run in the same manner.

That being said, how do these folks expect coaches to run a team with many of the kids saying they're tired, or don't want to play? Or what about the kids who don't show up to practice...or who show a complete lack of interest and focus on the field? What about rewarding the kids who do want to play, and who play very well?

Between my husband and I, we coach 3 teams (one t-ball, he assists with a 10 & under softball, and we're heavily involved with the Challenger teams), so I see all of this firsthand. We do our best ot make sure we follow the rules and teach the kids fair play. I have to admit...it's very frustrating when I see comments like those written in the Anvil Chorus.

Well I think you hit one point on the head. You are VERY involved at the ground level. Most parents are involved enough to know that their kid "isn't playing enough" and that's about it. I imagine the challenger teams don't have those problems as much as the other leagues do, but I have my feelings on the whole keeping score stuff too. At the younger ages, it is counterproductive. Those kids need to be learning the very basic skills of the sport, and they won't do it if the one kid who is advanced for his age takes every shot, runs the ball every time, etc. They need to learn the rules of the game, sportsmanship, teamwork, respect for authority (at the ages like under 10). When they start getting into late elementary school, then they can start keeping score and learning healthy competition. Kids should get to play half of the game if they want to do so. If they don't want to play they can go back and explain to their parents why they are sitting. That is a great lesson in taking responsibility for your actions and the consequences that come with that.

[JHeath]

Well I think you hit one point on the head. You are VERY involved at the ground level. Most parents are involved enough to know that their kid "isn't playing enough" and that's about it. I imagine the challenger teams don't have those problems as much as the other leagues do, but I have my feelings on the whole keeping score stuff too. At the younger ages, it is counterproductive. Those kids need to be learning the very basic skills of the sport, and they won't do it if the one kid who is advanced for his age takes every shot, runs the ball every time, etc. They need to learn the rules of the game, sportsmanship, teamwork, respect for authority (at the ages like under 10). When they start getting into late elementary school, then they can start keeping score and learning healthy competition. Kids should get to play half of the game if they want to do so. If they don't want to play they can go back and explain to their parents why they are sitting. That is a great lesson in taking responsibility for your actions and the consequences that come with that.

True, I am very involved (esp. since I also sit on the Board for the league...).

The keeping score thing is VERY limited with the younger age groups. Per inning, each team is only allowed to score 5 runs. It's not as though any one team is really allowed to run up the score on their opponents. The only situation where that tends to happen is if one team, for whatever reason, can't keep up with the other team. Everyone has their good and bad days...and it can happen to any team.

As far as going back to the parents and explaining why they're sitting, it seems like many kids don't (or wont) tell their parents they're tired, and some won't admit they lack an interest until they're older (then it's plainly evident).

[Dan]

Kids up to age 8, 9...i think they should let them play. When I coached I made sure every kid felt important, but there does come a time (junior high) when it's time to let the cream rise to the top and excel.

That being said, I'm still very disturbed by these socialist views posted by a couple of life-long Lakeshore drive limousine liberals.

[Dave]

That being said, I'm still very disturbed by these socialist views posted by a couple of life-long Lakeshore drive limousine liberals.

I don't think that word means what you think it does...

so·cial·ist ˈsoʊʃəlɪst/[soh-shuh-list]
–noun
1. an advocate or supporter of socialism.

so·cial·ism [soh-shuh-liz-uhm] –noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

Claiming that not keeping score at a tee-ball game is equivalent to state ownership of the means of production is a stretch that Plastic Man wouldn't even try to make.

[Roger Kaputnik]

THANK YOU, DAVE!!!

I think you have highlighted a major problem in this country which emerged in the days of Gingrich's Contract on America.

[Dan]

It means exactly what I said it means. Modern Liberalism is veiled socialism/communism. The three are interchangeable, and all have the same talking points.

"Let everyone win"
"Don't keep score"
"No competition"
"From each his ability, to each his need"

Those are all Socialist beliefs. Self-guilt and loathing which manifests it self as "help the poor/social causes" stems from a lack of a personal relationship with God or from the internal conflict of being wealthy and liberal.

If there is anything more left wing than that, I have no idea what it could be.

[JHeath]

...
"Let everyone win"
"Don't keep score"
"No competition"
"From each his ability, to each his need"

What you've just described there are the fundamentals used with the Challenger Little League teams (for kids with special needs). If their kids have issues, they're welcome to join in.

But, I do believe a bit of competition between kids is normal and healthy. Some kids are just more competitive than others (I can see it in all 3 of mine, as well as with my siblings and myself). Why try to make others play at a lower level, and possibly not develop thier talent instead of challenging the others to possibly improve?

[Southsider2k12]

True, I am very involved (esp. since I also sit on the Board for the league...).

The keeping score thing is VERY limited with the younger age groups. Per inning, each team is only allowed to score 5 runs. It's not as though any one team is really allowed to run up the score on their opponents. The only situation where that tends to happen is if one team, for whatever reason, can't keep up with the other team. Everyone has their good and bad days...and it can happen to any team.

As far as going back to the parents and explaining why they're sitting, it seems like many kids don't (or wont) tell their parents they're tired, and some won't admit they lack an interest until they're older (then it's plainly evident).

Speaking as someone who went 0-4 for the first time in years last night as my softball team lost to our arch rivals, maybe that is why I am sour on the whole keeping score thing today

Just kidding.

Having been involved in sports from the youngest ages, and having played, coached, refereed, broadcast, and just about anything else you can imagine, I have strong feelings on what types of things kid should be getting out of athletics at general age ranges. In my not-so-humble opinion the worst thing in athletics today is the parents who don't understand that Junior doesn't have to be the best player on the team to have fun and learn something.

[Dave]

Self-guilt and loathing which manifests it self as "help the poor/social causes" stems from a lack of a personal relationship with God or from the internal conflict of being wealthy and liberal.

If there is anything more left wing than that, I have no idea what it could be.

Or helping the poor and supporting social causes can come from "a personal relationship with God" -- or simply having a conscience.

Do you really need me to quote Jesus at you? Whenever I read what Jesus said, for some reason he comes off as being what you apparently would consider to be a "left-winger" -- lots of stuff about helping the poor, not much about supply side economics.

But we seem to be hijacking this thread, don't we? If you care to start a different thread, I'd be happy to engage you there.

[Southsider2k12]

Or helping the poor and supporting social causes can come from "a personal relationship with God" -- or simply having a conscience.

Do you really need me to quote Jesus at you? Whenever I read what Jesus said, for some reason he comes off as being what you apparently would consider to be a "left-winger" -- lots of stuff about helping the poor, not much about supply side economics.

But we seem to be hijacking this thread, don't we? If you care to start a different thread, I'd be happy to engage you there.

me too!

[JHeath]

...But we seem to be hijacking this thread, don't we? ...

Yes, please give me my thread back.

[Roger Kaputnik]

It means exactly what I said it means. Modern Liberalism is veiled socialism/communism. The three are interchangeable, and all have the same talking points.

"Let everyone win"
"Don't keep score"
"No competition"
"From each his ability, to each his need"

Those are all Socialist beliefs. Self-guilt and loathing which manifests it self as "help the poor/social causes" stems from a lack of a personal relationship with God or from the internal conflict of being wealthy and liberal.

If there is anything more left wing than that, I have no idea what it could be.

Once more, I am compelled to call you to task regarding your ignorance. The only thing worse than that is your swallowing the line you posit hook, line, and sinker. Socialism has nought to do with sport. Your equation of Socialism with Communism can be forgiven if your education has been attempted in the United States. Your equation of either Socialism or Communism, or as you bizarrely state, both, with Liberalism is wacky. It only is revelatory of your lack of knowledge, your willful misuse of those labels, or, barring the latter, your smoothness of cortex.



JHeath, you may have your thread back.

[ChickenCityRoller]

Lakeshore Limo Libs. That sounds pretty good for something. Kinda catchy!
Aside from Sharon Raab, I don't think any of those people live on LSD and they aren't millionaires.
Kathy Zmuda made her way through life being a story teller and her husband was a principal.

[Southsider2k12]

Hey Jen, what does your kids schedule look like this year? Is it Sunday evenings again? I want to try to get out there again.

[Roger Kaputnik]

I thought the Tournament was the end of the season.