[exsteel5]

So the Mayor was listening to his opponents back in 2009. When Mayor Meer ran against Robert McKee, Mr. McKee's political statement for why he wanted to be Mayor was to start this program. In any event, the MC Council and Mayor need to review Hammond's program very carefully. What the N-D says today in the paper is not true, it is not only for Hammond High students, it is for ALL students of families that live within the Hammond City Limits, whether they go to an in-city public or private school or out of city public or private school or even if they are home schooled. They have a very inclusive program because their reason for the program is to get people living in Hammond and paying property taxes. In fact, one thing that must be shown is that the Homeowner has a homestead exemption filed. I am not sure how they handle people that rent, but I think they are also included in the program. Also, how will they handle kids that go to MCHS and don't live within the City limits? The purpose of the program is to get people living within MC to increase the tax roles and the property values. It works great for Hammond and I am very happy to see them looking into this, I just hope they do not exclude families (like voucher kids, home schooled kids and kids that go to schools outside of the city limits, public and private).

[Southsider2k12]

The rumor I heard was that it would apply to students in the MCAS only. So if you ship your kids to Chesterton or New Prairie, no money. The underlying goal is to get attendance back up in MCAS, and to save local jobs.

If it does happen that way, it is great that finally someone realizes that the biggest thing holding us back from recruiting high paying jobs here is the reputation of the school system.

I also really hope that they are going to plan on doing this without casino money. Something like this needs an actual endowment fund that is stable and survives economic conditions.

[exsteel5]

The rumor I heard was that it would apply to students in the MCAS only. So if you ship your kids to Chesterton or New Prairie, no money. The underlying goal is to get attendance back up in MCAS, and to save local jobs.

If it does happen that way, it is great that finally someone realizes that the biggest thing holding us back from recruiting high paying jobs here is the reputation of the school system.

I also really hope that they are going to plan on doing this without casino money. Something like this needs an actual endowment fund that is stable and survives economic conditions.

If it does not apply to Michigan City residents in total it defeats the entire purpose of creating jobs that stay here in town. It is too bad this administration would not want to support the poor students that decided not to attend the MCHS and get a voucher for whatever reason or the home schooled kids. Kind of goes against what all of the MC administration Democrats espouse, or do they just pretend to care. Hmmmmm....if taxpayers choose not to attend the local school, they should not get penalized for it.

[Southsider2k12]

If it does not apply to Michigan City residents in total it defeats the entire purpose of creating jobs that stay here in town. It is too bad this administration would not want to support the poor students that decided not to attend the MCHS and get a voucher for whatever reason or the home schooled kids. Kind of goes against what all of the MC administration Democrats espouse, or do they just pretend to care. Hmmmmm....if taxpayers choose not to attend the local school, they should not get penalized for it.

They would be protectionist of local union jobs. That sounds exactly like Democrats to me. The voucher system is a Republican creation that the statewide Dems hate. They are very anti-school choice.

[exsteel5]

They would be protectionist of local union jobs. That sounds exactly like Democrats to me. The voucher system is a Republican creation that the statewide Dems hate. They are very anti-school choice.

Hopefully they see the light. If you model it after Hammond's program, anyone attending MCHS and not living within the City limits would NOT be eligible for the program. It is a way to get people to want to live within the City limits and pay the higher City taxes. It would absolutely raise the demand for homes within City, but as you say, the Dems do have other agendas, so it will probably be nothing like Hammonds program. Hammond program, BTW, is excellent and has achieved higher property values and families that have stayed in the City that otherwise would have left.

[exsteel5]

Hopefully they see the light. If you model it after Hammond's program, anyone attending MCHS and not living within the City limits would NOT be eligible for the program. It is a way to get people to want to live within the City limits and pay the higher City taxes. It would absolutely raise the demand for homes within City, but as you say, the Dems do have other agendas, so it will probably be nothing like Hammonds program. Hammond program, BTW, is excellent and has achieved higher property values and families that have stayed in the City that otherwise would have left.

Today's N-D says what was said before, only MCHS students get the scholarship and ONLY if they reside within Corporate City Limits. So if you live in Trail Creek, Pot Park or rural Coolspring Township, but forced to go to MCHS, you lose too. Wow, these politicians have no business savvy to accomplish the goals they want to accomplish. If it was opened up to all MC residents from any school as long as they reside in MC, 1) and anyone that attends MCHS, they would be able to exponentially increase the tax base and the home values, but with this poor attempt at a scholarship program, it is a dud. They say it is modeled after Hammond's!! HA, it is not even close. Hammond allows any Hammond resident to send their child to a state school for free tuition regardless where they go to school or even hoime school, because the point is to get people to move and stay there. Now that is a program that works. Typical MC, doing things half way. Look at our splash pad, that was great idea that was ruined by politicians, Valpo has a free one and it is awesome. Oh well, more riverbout money we will not have when we need it, keep blowing the money without getting the results.

[Jesse B]

I guess another reason for people within the School district but outside of the City limits to look for another school district.

[Southsider2k12]

Today's N-D says what was said before, only MCHS students get the scholarship and ONLY if they reside within Corporate City Limits. So if you live in Trail Creek, Pot Park or rural Coolspring Township, but forced to go to MCHS, you lose too. Wow, these politicians have no business savvy to accomplish the goals they want to accomplish. If it was opened up to all MC residents from any school as long as they reside in MC, 1) and anyone that attends MCHS, they would be able to exponentially increase the tax base and the home values, but with this poor attempt at a scholarship program, it is a dud. They say it is modeled after Hammond's!! HA, it is not even close. Hammond allows any Hammond resident to send their child to a state school for free tuition regardless where they go to school or even hoime school, because the point is to get people to move and stay there. Now that is a program that works. Typical MC, doing things half way. Look at our splash pad, that was great idea that was ruined by politicians, Valpo has a free one and it is awesome. Oh well, more riverbout money we will not have when we need it, keep blowing the money without getting the results.

What taxpayer wants to see their money going to out of towners? I am not even sure what you are proposing is legal. They would quite literally be subsidizing places like Long Beach.

[exsteel5]

What taxpayer wants to see their money going to out of towners? I am not even sure what you are proposing is legal. They would quite literally be subsidizing places like Long Beach.

I am not saying that at all. The vision of the people of Michigan City should be for people to want to live here. If you offered a scholarship as Hammond does to ALL residents that have kids going off to college, so the residents stay in Michigan City, then it is a win-win. Once the scholarship is discriminatory based on where your kids go to school or if they are home schooled, now your vision is not achieved because it appears that you do not support your City. I am advocating that people that pay property taxes (either directly or through renting) within the city should get the scholarship for their children that go to college. This will keep the parents in the city to stay in the city and possible the children to return as well. This discriminatory policy will just breed resentment and people will leave and the vision will not be achieved. Politicians again not using common sense and just trying to achieve their own small minded agendas.

[Southsider2k12]

I am not saying that at all. The vision of the people of Michigan City should be for people to want to live here. If you offered a scholarship as Hammond does to ALL residents that have kids going off to college, so the residents stay in Michigan City, then it is a win-win. Once the scholarship is discriminatory based on where your kids go to school or if they are home schooled, now your vision is not achieved because it appears that you do not support your City. I am advocating that people that pay property taxes (either directly or through renting) within the city should get the scholarship for their children that go to college. This will keep the parents in the city to stay in the city and possible the children to return as well. This discriminatory policy will just breed resentment and people will leave and the vision will not be achieved. Politicians again not using common sense and just trying to achieve their own small minded agendas.

You did say that when you were talking about all of the surrounding towns not being eligible. People of Trail Creek, Long Beach, etc aren't residents of Michigan City proper. That means if they were in the program, City funds would be going to people OUTSIDE of Michigan City. I don't believe that would even be legal.

[exsteel5]

You did say that when you were talking about all of the surrounding towns not being eligible. People of Trail Creek, Long Beach, etc aren't residents of Michigan City proper. That means if they were in the program, City funds would be going to people OUTSIDE of Michigan City. I don't believe that would even be legal.

I will try to be clearer. I am proposing:

1) If a student attends MCHS and therefore they either pay MCHS to be able to attend if they live outside of the school zone, or they live in the MCHS school zone and pay the MCHS tax rate then they should be eligible for the scholarship. or
2) The student has primary residence within the Michigan City Corporate limits and they are going to a 4 year state school, they should be eligible for the scholarship (regardless of where or how they received their high school education)

The point of the scholarship is to 1) get people to live and stay in Michigan City and 2) they want to boost enrollment at MCHS.

Why would you limit the scholarship to only MC Corporate limit students of MCHS, unless you don't care if home schooled kids, or voucher kids or private school kids families stay in MC or not? Also, if the MCHS students that live within the MCHS school zone (and get taxed for that) are excluded, what incentive do they have to stay in the area and attend MCHS when they get snubbed by this program?

If the program is exclusive it will fail. I always thought the Democrats tried to be inclusive or at least give the impression of being inclusive, yet this program is only for the the exclusive group of MCHS students that live in MCHS and have attended the MCHS school system for many years. Sounds like a failed program to me. Also, I don't think it will hold up to state law and the taxpayer lawsuits that will occur once it is implemented. The program is excluding a large portion of the taxpayers, yet making them pay for something they do not get to participate. It smells very rotten to me.

[Southsider2k12]

I will try to be clearer. I am proposing:

1) If a student attends MCHS and therefore they either pay MCHS to be able to attend if they live outside of the school zone, or they live in the MCHS school zone and pay the MCHS tax rate then they should be eligible for the scholarship. or
2) The student has primary residence within the Michigan City Corporate limits and they are going to a 4 year state school, they should be eligible for the scholarship (regardless of where or how they received their high school education)

The point of the scholarship is to 1) get people to live and stay in Michigan City and 2) they want to boost enrollment at MCHS.

Why would you limit the scholarship to only MC Corporate limit students of MCHS, unless you don't care if home schooled kids, or voucher kids or private school kids families stay in MC or not? Also, if the MCHS students that live within the MCHS school zone (and get taxed for that) are excluded, what incentive do they have to stay in the area and attend MCHS when they get snubbed by this program?

If the program is exclusive it will fail. I always thought the Democrats tried to be inclusive or at least give the impression of being inclusive, yet this program is only for the the exclusive group of MCHS students that live in MCHS and have attended the MCHS school system for many years. Sounds like a failed program to me. Also, I don't think it will hold up to state law and the taxpayer lawsuits that will occur once it is implemented. The program is excluding a large portion of the taxpayers, yet making them pay for something they do not get to participate. It smells very rotten to me.

From what I have read, Michigan City would not be the first to pay scholarships to only public school kids.

I also don't think it would be legal to send funds outside of the City limits. I don't think I have seen a single program that would fund non-residents.

[exsteel5]

From what I have read, Michigan City would not be the first to pay scholarships to only public school kids.

I also don't think it would be legal to send funds outside of the City limits. I don't think I have seen a single program that would fund non-residents.

I agree, the out of corporate limits might be a stretch, but the two Indiana Scholarship programs tied to City funds are Whiting and Hammond and both are open to "owner-occupied" homeowners with a current Homestead credit in the house they reside in and they are both open to ALL student of the cities, even if the student attends an out of city school. The whole point of these programs is to increase the tax base and get families to stay in the City, The amount of scholarship received depends on how long the family has lived in the City. Now that sounds like a fair program to the people that are footing the bill. I am not sure that Michigan City politicians can be so fair.

[Southsider2k12]

I agree, the out of corporate limits might be a stretch, but the two Indiana Scholarship programs tied to City funds are Whiting and Hammond and both are open to "owner-occupied" homeowners with a current Homestead credit in the house they reside in and they are both open to ALL student of the cities, even if the student attends an out of city school. The whole point of these programs is to increase the tax base and get families to stay in the City, The amount of scholarship received depends on how long the family has lived in the City. Now that sounds like a fair program to the people that are footing the bill. I am not sure that Michigan City politicians can be so fair.

New Buffalo's program is 100% dependent on being a resident AND attending their public schools. Theirs actually requires residency by 5th grade, which is way stiffer than ours. The Kalamazoo promise is the same waqy.

[exsteel5]

New Buffalo's program is 100% dependent on being a resident AND attending their public schools. Theirs actually requires residency by 5th grade, which is way stiffer than ours. The Kalamazoo promise is the same waqy.

New Buffalo and Kalamazoo are covered by Michigan State law. I am sure if Hammond could have found a way to discriminate the program to only include Hammond High School students they would have done it. Because this is public money I don;t think non-MCHS students can be excluded. Oh well, it is like everything else in MC, it will take a class action lawsuit once the program is implemented and the full $2.5 million will go to the lawyers and the winners of the suit. I hope they had some top notch City attorneys look at this or else we will be back in court getting sued. for discrimination. If this was a private scholarship, then they could exclude people for whatever reason, but this being public tax money, there will be a suit. Guaranteed.

[Southsider2k12]

New Buffalo and Kalamazoo are covered by Michigan State law. I am sure if Hammond could have found a way to discriminate the program to only include Hammond High School students they would have done it. Because this is public money I don;t think non-MCHS students can be excluded. Oh well, it is like everything else in MC, it will take a class action lawsuit once the program is implemented and the full $2.5 million will go to the lawyers and the winners of the suit. I hope they had some top notch City attorneys look at this or else we will be back in court getting sued. for discrimination. If this was a private scholarship, then they could exclude people for whatever reason, but this being public tax money, there will be a suit. Guaranteed.

What legal basis are you using to call this illegal? Is there a state law I am not aware of? Even the Hammond program excludes homeschooled kids, which would be "discrimination" under the definition you are using here. Realistically any program will exclude some groups of students.

[exsteel5]

What legal basis are you using to call this illegal? Is there a state law I am not aware of? Even the Hammond program excludes homeschooled kids, which would be "discrimination" under the definition you are using here. Realistically any program will exclude some groups of students.

You need to re-read the Hammond School program. They do NOT discriminate against home-schooled kids. There is a special exception application for them. They can't discriminate against them. When the taxpayers that are paying into the program have kids that can benefit from a taxpayer funded program, you can't exclude them. Yes, those with children have a choice for them to attend MCHS, BUT if we choose not to attend the MCHS for whatever reason, we are not allowed to NOT pay the portion of taxes that goes towards this program, right? I do not know the statute that will be used for the lawsuits, but if the City actually did their research and talked to the Hammond City officials, I bet they would tell MC which ones are gray enough that caused them to INCLUDE everyone. In Hammond, even families that own homes in Hammond that send there kids to Chicago schools are eligible. Now that is INCLUSIVE. Michigan City politicians are just going to divide the City even more and more people will leave because of this discriminatory program (why stay?). They say they are afraid of running out of money; they will do that in the first year after the first class action lawsuit.

[Southsider2k12]

You need to re-read the Hammond School program. They do NOT discriminate against home-schooled kids. There is a special exception application for them. They can't discriminate against them. When the taxpayers that are paying into the program have kids that can benefit from a taxpayer funded program, you can't exclude them. Yes, those with children have a choice for them to attend MCHS, BUT if we choose not to attend the MCHS for whatever reason, we are not allowed to NOT pay the portion of taxes that goes towards this program, right? I do not know the statute that will be used for the lawsuits, but if the City actually did their research and talked to the Hammond City officials, I bet they would tell MC which ones are gray enough that caused them to INCLUDE everyone. In Hammond, even families that own homes in Hammond that send there kids to Chicago schools are eligible. Now that is INCLUSIVE. Michigan City politicians are just going to divide the City even more and more people will leave because of this discriminatory program (why stay?). They say they are afraid of running out of money; they will do that in the first year after the first class action lawsuit.

You keep repeating yourself, but what law is this actually based on is really important here. What law do we have in Indiana, that doesn't apply in Michigan which makes this program illegal only here? I literally have no idea what you are basing this legal opinion on. There are a myriad of other requirements for this program, which limits the number of people who can participate. Why is it only the one for which schools you attended that is discriminatory, while something that limits something like GPA or community service hours not discriminatory, as it has the same effect of making sure that not all kids can get this scholarship? What is the difference between that requirement and any of the others?

And judging by the fact that Michigan City did consult with Hammond on this program, along with many of the other municipalities who have instituted similar programs, my guess is that all of your underlying assumptions here are 100% wrong. Now I guess that doesn't stop private school families and people taking their kids out of Michigan City from suing to look for their handout too, but that is the time we live in. It is sad everyone is looking for reasons to sue.

I think I mentioned this before, but this is also not a Michigan City taxpayer funded program. This is a Blue Chip tax funded program. The hope is to build an endowment around this program with donations going forward. So no, you won't be paying the taxes towards this program if you go else where. You also already would not be paying a large portion of funding to MCHS by not sending your kids there anyway.

I mean, in effect people who are sending their kids out of City for schooling are already "leaving" by sending their tax dollars and kids out of town anyway. What is the downside there? They are already costing us local jobs. People who don't live in City have already left anyway.

At the end of the day the goal is to try to give people a reason to actually live in the City of Michigan City and to attend the MCAS. If people already don't do that, they aren't actually losing out on anything they didn't have before. It isn't like people are going to see a monetary hurt by this policy. This would be a bonus. It would be an incentive to attract people to this City. It is like TIF money to attract jobs to City, just it is finally something for residents. If you don't want to meet the requirements, you don't get it, just like any other incentive program. They don't give TIF money to all businesses that move here, under the definition you are trying to justify, that would be legal grounds for discrimination, yet I have never seen anyone sued for it.

[exsteel5]

You keep repeating yourself, but what law is this actually based on is really important here. What law do we have in Indiana, that doesn't apply in Michigan which makes this program illegal only here? I literally have no idea what you are basing this legal opinion on. There are a myriad of other requirements for this program, which limits the number of people who can participate. Why is it only the one for which schools you attended that is discriminatory, while something that limits something like GPA or community service hours not discriminatory, as it has the same effect of making sure that not all kids can get this scholarship? What is the difference between that requirement and any of the others?

And judging by the fact that Michigan City did consult with Hammond on this program, along with many of the other municipalities who have instituted similar programs, my guess is that all of your underlying assumptions here are 100% wrong. Now I guess that doesn't stop private school families and people taking their kids out of Michigan City from suing to look for their handout too, but that is the time we live in. It is sad everyone is looking for reasons to sue.

I think I mentioned this before, but this is also not a Michigan City taxpayer funded program. This is a Blue Chip tax funded program. The hope is to build an endowment around this program with donations going forward. So no, you won't be paying the taxes towards this program if you go else where. You also already would not be paying a large portion of funding to MCHS by not sending your kids there anyway.

I mean, in effect people who are sending their kids out of City for schooling are already "leaving" by sending their tax dollars and kids out of town anyway. What is the downside there? They are already costing us local jobs. People who don't live in City have already left anyway.

At the end of the day the goal is to try to give people a reason to actually live in the City of Michigan City and to attend the MCAS. If people already don't do that, they aren't actually losing out on anything they didn't have before. It isn't like people are going to see a monetary hurt by this policy. This would be a bonus. It would be an incentive to attract people to this City. It is like TIF money to attract jobs to City, just it is finally something for residents. If you don't want to meet the requirements, you don't get it, just like any other incentive program. They don't give TIF money to all businesses that move here, under the definition you are trying to justify, that would be legal grounds for discrimination, yet I have never seen anyone sued for it.

I am not a lawyer, but the link to this article addresses the discriminatory requirement of how long one has attended the MCHS system or lived in an area...www.law.uh.edu/ihelg/monograph/08-01.pdf. This program will not give all people the reason to live in MC unless you have also decided to attend MCHS, which enrollment in the school system has been declining for years due to many other issues. People who move here do not have to pay extra to attend MCHS because they have not lived in the MC corporate limits for a prescribed amount of time, they don't, because the Supreme Court said that violated the State to State commerce laws, but now this program will limit someone that might have just arrived from somewhere else. That has already been upheld in court to be wrong, so there is a possible suit. I agree with your rhetorical questions, it is discriminatory to not include apartment dwellers and also kids that do not get good grades or kids that attend school other than MCHS, all of it is discriminatory and if this was a PRIVATE finding source, it would be allowed all day long, but Blue Chip Tax funded program is a HUGE stretch to call a private source of funding. That money was supposed to go to capital improvements in the City and thus offset tax dollars. If we don't need the Blue Chip Tax dollars why not give it to all tax payers as a dividend for living in the City? Again, the politicians are not smart enough to see the lawsuits coming, they never had been. Shoot, our mayor sued the Sanitary District because he did not understand how to report problems to his supervisor and he won! Exactly what parents will be doing next year after this program is implemented. It is a no brainer discrimination suit for unfairly disbursing tax dollars. Again, I don't know what law will be used, but I am sure the lawyers will figure that one out. BTW, TIFS do not discriminate against anyone that wants to start a business in a particular section of town. Anyone can do it, they do not apply to only graduates of MCHS. TIFS are economic development, as is the Promise program, so why discriminate in one program and not the other? Also, I do pay for the kids to go to MCHS, it is part of my property tax payment, why would you say I don't pay for MCHS if I don't send my kids there? They don't give me a tax credit if my kids go to private school (they should).

[Southsider2k12]

I am not a lawyer, but the link to this article addresses the discriminatory requirement of how long one has attended the MCHS system or lived in an area...www.law.uh.edu/ihelg/monograph/08-01.pdf. This program will not give all people the reason to live in MC unless you have also decided to attend MCHS, which enrollment in the school system has been declining for years due to many other issues. People who move here do not have to pay extra to attend MCHS because they have not lived in the MC corporate limits for a prescribed amount of time, they don't, because the Supreme Court said that violated the State to State commerce laws, but now this program will limit someone that might have just arrived from somewhere else. That has already been upheld in court to be wrong, so there is a possible suit. I agree with your rhetorical questions, it is discriminatory to not include apartment dwellers and also kids that do not get good grades or kids that attend school other than MCHS, all of it is discriminatory and if this was a PRIVATE finding source, it would be allowed all day long, but Blue Chip Tax funded program is a HUGE stretch to call a private source of funding. That money was supposed to go to capital improvements in the City and thus offset tax dollars. If we don't need the Blue Chip Tax dollars why not give it to all tax payers as a dividend for living in the City? Again, the politicians are not smart enough to see the lawsuits coming, they never had been. Shoot, our mayor sued the Sanitary District because he did not understand how to report problems to his supervisor and he won! Exactly what parents will be doing next year after this program is implemented. It is a no brainer discrimination suit for unfairly disbursing tax dollars. Again, I don't know what law will be used, but I am sure the lawyers will figure that one out. BTW, TIFS do not discriminate against anyone that wants to start a business in a particular section of town. Anyone can do it, they do not apply to only graduates of MCHS. TIFS are economic development, as is the Promise program, so why discriminate in one program and not the other? Also, I do pay for the kids to go to MCHS, it is part of my property tax payment, why would you say I don't pay for MCHS if I don't send my kids there? They don't give me a tax credit if my kids go to private school (they should).

So why haven't Kalamazoo, Hammond, and New Buffalo been sued out of existence yet? All of those programs include at least one element of what things that you are saying Michigan City would be discriminating with.

Also with the voucher system and the indiana school funding formula, schools do miss out on funds when a student attends another school. In fact, it would be just as easy to argue that by funding private school kids, we are violating the separation of church and state.