[MC Born & Raised]

Yeah, but this isn't about you. This is about the image of the city. I feel a sleazy strip club would be a detriment to the image of Michigan City. So do a lot of people.

"I just don't understand how it affects anyone."

Obviously.

I believe the Adult Toy Store had strippers in it for years. I didn't see anybody out there picketing talking about how it was destroying Michigan City. We survived somehow.

[Tim]

I believe the Adult Toy Store had strippers in it for years. I didn't see anybody out there picketing talking about how it was destroying Michigan City. We survived somehow.

Who said anything about it destroying MC?

How's this - if you feel MC would be better, or at least not worse, by having a strip club go fight for it. Of course, that's your right. But is legislation to keep this sleaze out of MC a way of telling people how to live their lives?

Nope.

[MC Born & Raised]

Who said anything about it destroying MC?

How's this - if you feel MC would be better, or at least not worse, by having a strip club go fight for it. Of course, that's your right. But is legislation to keep this sleaze out of MC a way of telling people how to live their lives?

Nope.

You used the word "detriment" which means the state of being harmed or damaged. So, in short, YOU said that.

And we'll just agree to differ on the telling people how to live their lives part.

[Tim]

You used the word "detriment" which means the state of being harmed or damaged. So, in short, YOU said that.

And we'll just agree to differ on the telling people how to live their lives part.

"So, in short, YOU said that."

In short, nope. Not unless harmed or damaged mean the same thing as destroyed.

I seriously think MC's concern about sleazy strip clubs has a lot more to do with the effect on our image rather than whether our local citizens go or don't go.

[MC Born & Raised]

"So, in short, YOU said that."

In short, nope. Not unless harmed or damaged mean the same thing as destroyed.

I seriously think MC's concern about sleazy strip clubs has a lot more to do with the effect on our image rather than whether our local citizens go or don't go.

You wanna play the semantics game, I'll play. Damage has a synonym of "destruction" with a root word "destroy."

Yes, I know, you keep making the image argument. I'm just saying I don't buy it.

[Tim]

You wanna play the semantics game, I'll play. Damage has a synonym of "destruction" with a root word "destroy."

Yes, I know, you keep making the image argument. I'm just saying I don't buy it.

"Damage has a synonym of "destruction" "

Not in all cases.

"I'm just saying I don't buy it."

Obviously. A lot of people do, however - hence the opposition.

[MC Born & Raised]

"Damage has a synonym of "destruction" "

Not in all cases.

"I'm just saying I don't buy it."

Obviously. A lot of people do, however - hence the opposition.

Not in all cases? Huh? Just own what you said, man. Good God.

[Tim]

Not in all cases? Huh? Just own what you said, man. Good God.

Don't understand? I'll explain. Take these two sentences -

"His house was damaged in the storm."

"His house was destroyed in the storm."

So, do you really think that saying a house was damaged that means it was destroyed? Really?

[MC Born & Raised]

Don't understand? I'll explain. Take these two sentences -

"His house was damaged in the storm."

"His house was destroyed in the storm."

So, do you really think that saying a house was damaged that means it was destroyed? Really?

You're right, my bad. When you said "detriment" I should have known you meant the less-bad kind of detriment.

Look, my ultimate point is this: I love this town and always will, but we get all up in arms about some dumb stuff sometimes. To me, this falls into that category. There are many important things to deal with here, some that get at the very core of what it takes to make it as a people (education, infrastructure, etc.). I just can't justify spending any more time or energy on this issue. If it goes in, fine. If it doesn't, fine. My life won't change one iota either way, and neither will yours. And, in my opinion, the image of Michigan City won't be impacted in the long-term by a place where people dance topless.

[indianamaniac]

First of all, Tim, your analogy of comparing strip clubs to dealing heroin was faulty bordering on ridiculous.

You'd wish that people used their personal convictions when making financial decisions, but it's pretty obvious that the almighty dollar has come to outweigh morals in today's society whether we're in the United States or Japan. Strip clubs are not illegal and therefore are fair game for someone who wishes to use sex to earn money. Am I at all interested in patronizing a strip club? No, not really. Am I in a position to begrudge someone else the opportunity to open a business that will more than likely be profitable? No, not really.

The better analogy would have been if Smith and Wesson decided they wanted to build a gun factory in Michigan City. As someone who doesn't have a whole lot of use for guns period, I would probably feel pretty strongly that I wouldn't want them being produced in my backyard. Would I lobby against it? No. It's a business that would be pushing tax dollars into the local infrastructure.

If I had my choice on whether we had a strip club or not, my preference would be no. However, making the suggestion that a strip club would be "detrimental" to Michigan City's overall image is suggesting that we are already living in some type of Utopia.

MC Born and Raised's point that it ultimately won't affect those of us who live here is valid. We don't have to go to it, but who are we to begrudge the opportunity for someone to make money just because we're worried about what it will ultimately do to our image? I personally prefer the image of tax dollars being pumped into the system and a few jobs being created.

People like to gamble, people like to drink, people like sex. Our capitalist society has proved more than willing to throw people's convictions by the wayside in return for profits. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

[Tim]

You're right, my bad. When you said "detriment" I should have known you meant the less-bad kind of detriment.

Look, my ultimate point is this: I love this town and always will, but we get all up in arms about some dumb stuff sometimes. To me, this falls into that category. There are many important things to deal with here, some that get at the very core of what it takes to make it as a people (education, infrastructure, etc.). I just can't justify spending any more time or energy on this issue. If it goes in, fine. If it doesn't, fine. My life won't change one iota either way, and neither will yours. And, in my opinion, the image of Michigan City won't be impacted in the long-term by a place where people dance topless.

I think the possibility of negative impact is great. So do a lot of people. It's not a point of people "getting over themselves" as you state. It's a point of a city that watched its core economic structure disappear and is trying very hard to hang on to and bolster its current one.

[MC Born & Raised]

First of all, Tim, your analogy of comparing strip clubs to dealing heroin was faulty bordering on ridiculous.

You'd wish that people used their personal convictions when making financial decisions, but it's pretty obvious that the almighty dollar has come to outweigh morals in today's society whether we're in the United States or Japan. Strip clubs are not illegal and therefore are fair game for someone who wishes to use sex to earn money. Am I at all interested in patronizing a strip club? No, not really. Am I in a position to begrudge someone else the opportunity to open a business that will more than likely be profitable? No, not really.

The better analogy would have been if Smith and Wesson decided they wanted to build a gun factory in Michigan City. As someone who doesn't have a whole lot of use for guns period, I would probably feel pretty strongly that I wouldn't want them being produced in my backyard. Would I lobby against it? No. It's a business that would be pushing tax dollars into the local infrastructure.

If I had my choice on whether we had a strip club or not, my preference would be no. However, making the suggestion that a strip club would be "detrimental" to Michigan City's overall image is suggesting that we are already living in some type of Utopia.

MC Born and Raised's point that it ultimately won't affect those of us who live here is valid. We don't have to go to it, but who are we to begrudge the opportunity for someone to make money just because we're worried about what it will ultimately do to our image? I personally prefer the image of tax dollars being pumped into the system and a few jobs being created.

People like to gamble, people like to drink, people like sex. Our capitalist society has proved more than willing to throw people's convictions by the wayside in return for profits. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

+1

I like the gun factory analogy. That works well.

[MC Born & Raised]

I think the possibility of negative impact is great. So do a lot of people. It's not a point of people "getting over themselves" as you state. It's a point of a city that watched its core economic structure disappear and is trying very hard to hang on to and bolster its current one.

But, as I've said, that has existed right here in Michigan City for years. Does the Adult Toy Store (or whatever it's called these days) negatively effect MC's image? Do tourists and other business look at MC and pass because of that place? I can't imagine that's ever happened.

[Tim]

First of all, Tim, your analogy of comparing strip clubs to dealing heroin was faulty bordering on ridiculous.

You'd wish that people used their personal convictions when making financial decisions, but it's pretty obvious that the almighty dollar has come to outweigh morals in today's society whether we're in the United States or Japan. Strip clubs are not illegal and therefore are fair game for someone who wishes to use sex to earn money. Am I at all interested in patronizing a strip club? No, not really. Am I in a position to begrudge someone else the opportunity to open a business that will more than likely be profitable? No, not really.

The better analogy would have been if Smith and Wesson decided they wanted to build a gun factory in Michigan City. As someone who doesn't have a whole lot of use for guns period, I would probably feel pretty strongly that I wouldn't want them being produced in my backyard. Would I lobby against it? No. It's a business that would be pushing tax dollars into the local infrastructure.

If I had my choice on whether we had a strip club or not, my preference would be no. However, making the suggestion that a strip club would be "detrimental" to Michigan City's overall image is suggesting that we are already living in some type of Utopia.

MC Born and Raised's point that it ultimately won't affect those of us who live here is valid. We don't have to go to it, but who are we to begrudge the opportunity for someone to make money just because we're worried about what it will ultimately do to our image? I personally prefer the image of tax dollars being pumped into the system and a few jobs being created.

People like to gamble, people like to drink, people like sex. Our capitalist society has proved more than willing to throw people's convictions by the wayside in return for profits. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

"First of all, Tim, your analogy of comparing strip clubs to dealing heroin was faulty bordering on ridiculous."

Not in the context of the argument presented.

"making the suggestion that a strip club would be "detrimental" to Michigan City's overall image is suggesting that we are already living in some type of Utopia."

No, it doesn't.

"
MC Born and Raised's point that it ultimately won't affect those of us who live here is valid."

Uh huh. So, if that's true - why all the opposition? If, as you claim, having a sleazy strip club in MC would have no effect, good or bad, why would people care?

[Tim]

But, as I've said, that has existed right here in Michigan City for years. Does the Adult Toy Store (or whatever it's called these days) negatively effect MC's image? Do tourists and other business look at MC and pass because of that place? I can't imagine that's ever happened.

How can you know whether that's true or not? You're just guessing. Maybe everyone is. But there must be a reason for such opposition.

[MC Born & Raised]

How can you know whether that's true or not? You're just guessing. Maybe everyone is. But there must be a reason for such opposition.

Because they have opinions, just like I do. When I say people need to get over themselves, I'm talking about the moral police who tend to come out and get very loud with issues like this. And those are the people, as mc46360 stated, that like to try and tell people how to live their lives.

[Tim]

Because they have opinions, just like I do. When I say people need to get over themselves, I'm talking about the moral police who tend to come out and get very loud with issues like this. And those are the people, as mc46360 stated, that like to try and tell people how to live their lives.

In my opinion this has nothing to do with any kind of moral policing. If someone imposes a speed limit because that speed limit has been proven to save lives is that person trying to tell you how to "live your life"?

[indianamaniac]

"First of all, Tim, your analogy of comparing strip clubs to dealing heroin was faulty bordering on ridiculous."

Not in the context of the argument presented.

"making the suggestion that a strip club would be "detrimental" to Michigan City's overall image is suggesting that we are already living in some type of Utopia."

No, it doesn't.

"
MC Born and Raised's point that it ultimately won't affect those of us who live here is valid."

Uh huh. So, if that's true - why all the opposition? If, as you claim, having a sleazy strip club in MC would have no effect, good or bad, why would people care?

Because there's quite an imbalance between morality and reality.

We're worried about kids on a school bus riding by a building with neon lights because of what is happening inside, but our society has little problem with Jersey Shore, a show that promotes drinking and promiscuity, entering our homes on television every single day.

This is real life. Whether we like it or not, it's out there. I have a 5-year-old daughter and day-after-day I try and figure out ways of explaining the world to her without blatantly coming out and saying, "You know dear, our world is f***** up. You're going to have to learn to navigate through it."

Our image is what we make of it. Right now we are a community that has many bigger issues than a strip club. If we'd rally around what we have half as much as we rally against what we don't want, maybe we'd get somewhere.

[Tim]

Because there's quite an imbalance between morality and reality.

We're worried about kids on a school bus riding by a building with neon lights because of what is happening inside, but our society has little problem with Jersey Shore, a show that promotes drinking and promiscuity, entering our homes on television every single day.

This is real life. Whether we like it or not, it's out there. I have a 5-year-old daughter and day-after-day I try and figure out ways of explaining the world to her without blatantly coming out and saying, "You know dear, our world is f***** up. You're going to have to learn to navigate through it."

Our image is what we make of it. Right now we are a community that has many bigger issues than a strip club. If we'd rally around what we have half as much as we rally against what we don't want, maybe we'd get somewhere.

While I agree there are bigger issues at hand in MC than this strip club situation I don't think that means it's not worthy of examination and debate.

That is what this is all about.

[indianamaniac]

While I agree there are bigger issues at hand in MC than this strip club situation I don't think that means it's not worthy of examination and debate.

That is what this is all about.

Okay, and MC Born and Raised made his observation, you countered with a horrible analogy and suggested that the opposition isn't relying on moral objections that society seemingly abandoned a long time ago.

We all get get. You think that that "sleaze" doesn't have a place in your original hometown despite the fact that sexually oriented businesses are nothing new to Michigan City or LaPorte County. The objections are of a moral nature and quite frankly are an example of one group of individuals telling another group of individuals that their way of viewing things is askew.

When the Founding Fathers provided for personal freedoms, including religion, they really didn't take into consideration what was going to happen when the nation became 314 million people. Personal freedoms are something that individuals are more than happy to throw out there until it doesn't suit them. The sooner we realize that people are free to engage in activities that haven't been deemed illegal, the better off we're all going to be.