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> The attitude of Michigan City
RedDevilMC
post Oct 10 2007, 09:00 AM
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Open Fighting is within the races now. Crazy.

In what year(Fedders Alley)? I'm a Generation X person, so forgive me.
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Ang
post Oct 10 2007, 09:12 AM
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I don't exactly recall the Fedder's Alley beaches being white only, but I do recall when you wouldn't find black folks in the alley itself or the park. That was back in the early 80's. Last time I went through there (this past summer while home on vacation) I noticed it was pretty equal among blacks, whites and hispanics in the park. But, I didn't venture on to the beach from there. I did, however, notice that Indiana Dunes State Park seemed like "Little Mexico." There were crowds and crowds of hispanics, a smattering of black folks and only a handful of whites.


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Roger Kaputnik
post Oct 11 2007, 11:34 AM
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Red Devil, I mean fisticuffs, etc. As far as Fedder's, I would say through my high school years. Next time I see you, let's talk.


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lovethiscity
post Oct 13 2007, 06:57 AM
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QUOTE(mcstumper @ Sep 17 2007, 10:08 PM) *

Just another jag who abandoned Michigan City and then feels the need to cheap shot it. The most constructive thing this guy can think of to "help" his hometown is to write a eulogy which is supposed to somehow second as a pep talk. Go jump off a cliff. "People with courage, strength and conviction"... don't hightail it for creamy-white, upper-middleclass-and-higher-need-only-apply Carmel. "You have a phenomenal asset in Lake Michigan, but then there is the eyesore of NIPSCO." Thanks for that. Maybe he can have a bake sale out in front of his local SuperOrganicFoods Grocery where they could raise enough money to not only purchase the NIPSCO plant, but to raze it, remediate the land, and replace the lost wages and tax revenue. What Michigan City needs is for the children and grandchildren of its once great leaders to stop moving away to all white communities because it is so much easier than doing the hard work of improving a community that has real challenges like racial discord, poverty, and substandard job opportunities. Why doesn't this idiot stop sitting around thinking of ways to motivate us up here and move his family 10 miles further south into northcentral Indianapolis where you will find neighborhoods with problems just like ours here in Michigan City. Then we can all see if through his work he measures up to be half the man of a Nate Winski.

No Southie, I didn't care for it too much.

OUCH, the truth hurts! But let us not talk about it.
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lovethiscity
post Oct 13 2007, 07:20 AM
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QUOTE(mcstumper @ Sep 18 2007, 03:50 PM) *

Jenny,
If you took my response that I was criticizing Nate, then you misunderstood me. Paul, on the other hand... He writes about Mt. Baldy, the Zoo and Marquette Mall as though those things are gone. He makes no mention of the skate park, the Lighthouse Mall, Millenium Park, Bubbles, Ruby Woods, Streibel Pond, Blue Chip, Patriot Park, the new Cinemaplex. Why doesn't he talk about all the work being done to purchase blighted properties on the creek and remediate them. How about great times at the Treehouse or Bridges? How about a High School athletics program that has made some wonderful hires over the last year? How about the new Lutheran High School which gives parents even more choice in the education of their children? Why doesn't he talk about Mayor Chuck's discussions with the state to gain control of Michigan Blvd so that it can be redeveloped? The NIPSCO plant!!??? Are you kidding me? And his comments on crime... why not mention that the general trend in crime in Michigan City over the last 5 years have been downward? The real problem is that when progress is made in this town, people like this still won't give us any credit. They are obsessed with picking at the negative points.

I know that Michigan City has a very long way to go. We need a pro-business attitude. The intermodal site(s) has got to happen. We desperately need an influx of new blood with positive attitudes about what can be done in this community. I honestly hope that we will continue to press for higher-end residential developments on the north end that could draw into the city limits people from places like Hyde Park in Chicago where a turn around has already begun to happen.

I have a good friend who is a Springville resident but owns a business in Michigan City. He has decided to pull his kids from the parochial schools here and move them to the LaPorte system. He is constantly stumping for LaPorte, telling me how wonderful it is compared to Michigan City. His kids now are parroting him, never having a positive thing to say about the City. And let me tell you it burns me up! These people are so conditioned to only think about and talk about what is wrong with Michigan City. You try to point out the positive and they don't want to see it. They seem to take pleasure in the prospect of its failure.

An interesting article in the Chicago Suntimes a few weeks ago

Chicago travelers pick Wis., spurn Ind.Click here for complete article
Author: Ben Goldberger The Chicago Sun-Times
Date: September 17, 2007
Publication: Chicago Sun-Times (IL)
Page: 12
Word Count: 717
Excerpt:
A vacation in the Hoosier state? Not likely if you're a Chicagoan. Indiana does not even crack the top five as a vacation destination for Chicagoans, according to market research data collected by the Scarborough Research Corporation. Wisconsin is Chicagoans' top place in the U.S. to vacation, with Michigan -- which most Chicagoans must drive through Indiana to get to -- a close second. Indiana's absence from the top tier does not surprise Kevin Erington, 50,...

Chicagoans tend to think of Northwest Indiana as a dirty industry area, not a nice place to visit. While at every level of our government (State, County and Local governments) are spending a fortune to try and change this perception, they are at the same time trying to create the area as a huge freight yard. Quite contradicting stands. We need them to quit waisting our mooney in doing so. Keep in mind, recent government release of statictics show, A single parent with two children needs to make $17.20 an hour to become self suficient. Freight yard jobs average much less.
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Ang
post Oct 13 2007, 09:51 AM
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QUOTE(lovethiscity @ Oct 13 2007, 07:20 AM) *

Keep in mind, recent government release of statictics show, A single parent with two children needs to make $17.20 an hour to become self suficient.


As a single parent with two kids I totally agree. Although I only have one at home now, I would still have to make no less than $15/hr just to pay cost of living expenses. Even if I could qualify for public assistance, it still wouldn't be enough. And in order to qualify for that, with only one child at home, I'd have to gross less than $1600/mo.
In Wyoming the cost of living is cheaper than in Indiana and we don't have state income taxes here. I make $12/hr and I'm having a hard time. My cost of living runs about $700/mo (rent + utilities) which is almost half of my monthly net income. Then there is my car payment, insurance, gas, food, and various other bills. I don't have credit cards and don't buy mail order stuff. I can't afford those things. I didn't even have the money to buy school pictures this year. There is absolutely no way I could afford to live on that in Indiana, Illinois, Michigan or Wisconsin! Not by myself anyway.


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Southsider2k12
post Oct 13 2007, 01:29 PM
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QUOTE(lovethiscity @ Oct 13 2007, 08:20 AM) *

An interesting article in the Chicago Suntimes a few weeks ago

Chicago travelers pick Wis., spurn Ind.Click here for complete article
Author: Ben Goldberger The Chicago Sun-Times
Date: September 17, 2007
Publication: Chicago Sun-Times (IL)
Page: 12
Word Count: 717
Excerpt:
A vacation in the Hoosier state? Not likely if you're a Chicagoan. Indiana does not even crack the top five as a vacation destination for Chicagoans, according to market research data collected by the Scarborough Research Corporation. Wisconsin is Chicagoans' top place in the U.S. to vacation, with Michigan -- which most Chicagoans must drive through Indiana to get to -- a close second. Indiana's absence from the top tier does not surprise Kevin Erington, 50,...

Chicagoans tend to think of Northwest Indiana as a dirty industry area, not a nice place to visit. While at every level of our government (State, County and Local governments) are spending a fortune to try and change this perception, they are at the same time trying to create the area as a huge freight yard. Quite contradicting stands. We need them to quit waisting our mooney in doing so. Keep in mind, recent government release of statictics show, A single parent with two children needs to make $17.20 an hour to become self suficient. Freight yard jobs average much less.


Yet Freight yard jobs are a big step above the jobs we have to offer to people who have a high school diploma or less. Lighthouse place, Blue Chip, and the other tourists traps aren't paying anything close to the $12-13 an hour starting wages estimated of the intermodal type jobs. Tourism has its role and is a nice injection of cash into MC, but we need to parlay those gains into family supporting type jobs. You aren't going to have someone come along and build an automotive plant or something that will pay a near $20 an hour starting wage plus benefits... Those days are gone. The intermodal is a huge step forward, and they also match the educational and workforce dynamics of our area. With our graduation rates, its not like we are going to be looking at white collar and high technology employers moving here.
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lovethiscity
post Oct 14 2007, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE(southsider2k7 @ Oct 13 2007, 02:29 PM) *

Yet Freight yard jobs are a big step above the jobs we have to offer to people who have a high school diploma or less. Lighthouse place, Blue Chip, and the other tourists traps aren't paying anything close to the $12-13 an hour starting wages estimated of the intermodal type jobs. Tourism has its role and is a nice injection of cash into MC, but we need to parlay those gains into family supporting type jobs. You aren't going to have someone come along and build an automotive plant or something that will pay a near $20 an hour starting wage plus benefits... Those days are gone. The intermodal is a huge step forward, and they also match the educational and workforce dynamics of our area. With our graduation rates, its not like we are going to be looking at white collar and high technology employers moving here.

It is a viscous circle. We are to wipe out any chance of high tech jobs that would bring an educated work force. That would spill into our school system and help our kids. By decimating any chance of cleaning up our image by building freight yards, so that the goods imported by our exported manufacturing jobs can be distributed easier and cheeper. It is unfortunate that an educated work force will not want to locate to a freight yard in a State that already leads the nation in brain cancer.
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Southsider2k12
post Oct 15 2007, 07:19 AM
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QUOTE(lovethiscity @ Oct 14 2007, 10:09 PM) *

It is a viscous circle. We are to wipe out any chance of high tech jobs that would bring an educated work force. That would spill into our school system and help our kids. By decimating any chance of cleaning up our image by building freight yards, so that the goods imported by our exported manufacturing jobs can be distributed easier and cheeper. It is unfortunate that an educated work force will not want to locate to a freight yard in a State that already leads the nation in brain cancer.


I'd actually disagree with you, and I would use history as my guide. Historically it takes about two generations to break the situation that Michigan City is in. Usually the first generation gets the ability to work at a middle class, blue collar job that involved working hard physical work for a living. That generation is able to break the poverty cycle. By breaking the poverty cycle, they also bring hope to the next generation, who sees the hard work their parent/s put in everyday, and usually vow to do better. They take it upon themselves to become better educated, and not to repeat the labors of their fathers. The second generation is the one that goes into the white collar/professional fields, because the education allows them to do so. The Chesterton/Valpo sector is the perfect example of this playing out over a two to three generation cycle. The steel mills and other factories over there didn't ruin the towns, in fact, it gave them the tax base to push their educational system to a higher level than us. As a matter of a fact that was the model that Michigan City was operating on until the industrial/manufacturing base in MC collapsed. Once the tax base collapsed, then the educational system collapsed. Ever since then we have experienced a brain drain of all our best and brightest fleeing the area, and consequently we have entered into a poverty cycle instead. Michigan City has basically no middle class anymore. Until MC establishes a middle class out of our poorer residents nothing is going to change. You can't just bring high education jobs to this area and expect things to be fixed. Education for the younger generation and decent wage industrial/manufacturing jobs for the generation Xers are the key to fix MC in my opinion.
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Roger Kaputnik
post Oct 15 2007, 08:31 AM
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Amen, amen, Southsider!


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lovethiscity
post Oct 15 2007, 09:57 PM
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QUOTE(southsider2k7 @ Oct 15 2007, 08:19 AM) *

I'd actually disagree with you, and I would use history as my guide. Historically it takes about two generations to break the situation that Michigan City is in. Usually the first generation gets the ability to work at a middle class, blue collar job that involved working hard physical work for a living. That generation is able to break the poverty cycle. By breaking the poverty cycle, they also bring hope to the next generation, who sees the hard work their parent/s put in everyday, and usually vow to do better. They take it upon themselves to become better educated, and not to repeat the labors of their fathers. The second generation is the one that goes into the white collar/professional fields, because the education allows them to do so. The Chesterton/Valpo sector is the perfect example of this playing out over a two to three generation cycle. The steel mills and other factories over there didn't ruin the towns, in fact, it gave them the tax base to push their educational system to a higher level than us. As a matter of a fact that was the model that Michigan City was operating on until the industrial/manufacturing base in MC collapsed. Once the tax base collapsed, then the educational system collapsed. Ever since then we have experienced a brain drain of all our best and brightest fleeing the area, and consequently we have entered into a poverty cycle instead. Michigan City has basically no middle class anymore. Until MC establishes a middle class out of our poorer residents nothing is going to change. You can't just bring high education jobs to this area and expect things to be fixed. Education for the younger generation and decent wage industrial/manufacturing jobs for the generation Xers are the key to fix MC in my opinion.

The history you speak of is based on new immigrants and is true. Michigan City however has been a blue collar town since it began. Way more then two generations have passed. Reality is we are going to see a generation of Michigan City residents that do not fair better than their parents. Over 13%of the population is living below poverty now and the number is rising not going down.
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Southsider2k12
post Oct 16 2007, 06:13 AM
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QUOTE(lovethiscity @ Oct 15 2007, 10:57 PM) *

The history you speak of is based on new immigrants and is true. Michigan City however has been a blue collar town since it began. Way more then two generations have passed. Reality is we are going to see a generation of Michigan City residents that do not fair better than their parents. Over 13%of the population is living below poverty now and the number is rising not going down.


The collapse of the only real middle class jobs 20-30 years ago is what has really interupted that cycle. Think of the factories and companies that have closed over that time. Some of Michigan City's developmental mistakes have been well documented, others have not. We did not diversify our base well enough, so when industry collapsed, the only people who stayed were people who didn't have anykind of mobility. People who had in-demand skills found other work in other towns, those who didn't took big paycuts and entered the poverty cycle. The middle class jobs I talked about are the key to breaking that cycle. We have pretty much lost a generation of talent because we didn't have anything for them to do. Its the exact reason I work in Chicago and not Michigan City.
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RedDevilMC
post Oct 16 2007, 08:47 AM
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I agree with Southsider. My parents relocated to Florida for more opportunities. They didn't have degrees or anything but factories were closing and the welfare system is designed to separate families. There were 7 children in our home. Since my parents were married and worked they weren't eligible for assistance unless my dad left the home. This leads to bad family values and fraudulent activities. This is how the poverty cycle took over this region. We have to build a skilled workforce within our city but we can't turn down anything right now. We are in a rebuilding stage - industry, tourism, education, city government. You name it. I almost feel like we are in a state of emergency sometimes. My two cents.
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mcstumper
post Oct 16 2007, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE(RedDevilMC @ Oct 16 2007, 09:47 AM) *

We have to build a skilled workforce within our city but we can't turn down anything right now. We are in a rebuilding stage - industry, tourism, education, city government. You name it. I almost feel like we are in a state of emergency sometimes. My two cents.


Think "State of Opportunity" instead of "State of Emergency".


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RedDevilMC
post Oct 16 2007, 09:15 PM
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I LIKE THAT!!!

Angie
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Roger Kaputnik
post Oct 17 2007, 10:34 AM
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Your two cents, RedDevil, are worth two golden eggs! I would also ask the Gentle Reader to ask how many siblings have moved away, how many classmates are long gone. I do not want my sons to move far away because there are no opportunities hereabouts. Emergency? Yes. Opportunity? You betcha!


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Southsider2k12
post Oct 17 2007, 10:38 AM
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QUOTE(mcstumper @ Oct 16 2007, 10:08 PM) *

Think "State of Opportunity" instead of "State of Emergency".



QUOTE(RedDevilMC @ Oct 16 2007, 10:15 PM) *

I LIKE THAT!!!

Angie


It definately makes for a better campaign slogan smile.gif

By the way, I just want to say this has been a great discussion for all who have been involved in it. Thanks for induging me.


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Roger Kaputnik
post Oct 17 2007, 11:38 AM
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Incidentally, the class gap in this country is widening, so in that sense we can say that MC is leading the way!


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lovethiscity
post Oct 17 2007, 06:40 PM
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QUOTE(southsider2k7 @ Oct 16 2007, 07:13 AM) *

The collapse of the only real middle class jobs 20-30 years ago is what has really interupted that cycle. Think of the factories and companies that have closed over that time. Some of Michigan City's developmental mistakes have been well documented, others have not. We did not diversify our base well enough, so when industry collapsed, the only people who stayed were people who didn't have anykind of mobility. People who had in-demand skills found other work in other towns, those who didn't took big paycuts and entered the poverty cycle. The middle class jobs I talked about are the key to breaking that cycle. We have pretty much lost a generation of talent because we didn't have anything for them to do. Its the exact reason I work in Chicago and not Michigan City.

Now we are back to the begining of the thread and why I feel the turning of the area into a freight yard with unskilled below poverty paying jobs will be another nail in the areas coffin. We will never be able to attract an educated work force or technical manufacturing jobs that reguire skils not available in third world nations. If we are to compete for these in demand type jobs, we also have to offer potential companys a nice place to live.
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Southsider2k12
post Oct 18 2007, 06:37 AM
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QUOTE(lovethiscity @ Oct 17 2007, 07:40 PM) *

Now we are back to the begining of the thread and why I feel the turning of the area into a freight yard with unskilled below poverty paying jobs will be another nail in the areas coffin. We will never be able to attract an educated work force or technical manufacturing jobs that reguire skils not available in third world nations. If we are to compete for these in demand type jobs, we also have to offer potential companys a nice place to live.


Working industrial towns can be nice places to live. Look at places like Chesterton, Porter, Portage, etc. They started out with industry, and diversified their base as their generations moved on. They offered a white collar reason for the second and third generations to stay, and even to attract new people.

Think of it this way... Even if Microsoft showed up tomorrow looking to hand out 100K a year jobs, it wouldn't matter much to MC because we wouldn't have anyone who could work those jobs. We don't have the labor force and community education level necesary to fill those jobs. Those kind of things have to be built. You have to first have a nice tax base, which disappeared over the years to fund the thing the that really matters, education. The big problem right now is the people stuck in the poverty cycle with a complete lack of hope, which is being passed onto their children who are in the schools now. Unless the parents have a reason to have hope, the children don't have much of a chance of breaking the cycle. You see it in the kids who are in our classrooms at this very moment. That's why supplying a manufacturing/industrial type job that pays a decent wage is a key step on that path. $12-13 starting an hour might not sound like much, but it is much better than the money that many of them are making working at Lighthouse Place or Blue Chip, or any other of our retail establishments. You have to be at a management level in retail to make that kind of money.

It really is a complex process, because there are different goals for different groups of people.
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