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> Where is the Racism in MC?, self-explanatory, isn't it?
Roger Kaputnik
post Dec 21 2006, 12:39 PM
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Ok, let's go.


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Roger Kaputnik
post Dec 21 2006, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE(Roger Kaputnik @ Dec 21 2006, 06:39 PM) *

Ok, let's go.

QUOTE
Shall we take this to the City by the Lake? I will start a thread, Where is the Racism in MC?

Roger Kaputnik
Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 (01:12:31 pm EST)


QUOTE
PS: I re-read Phil's comments about the four teens, and he does not mention race. He mentions economic class issues, not racial issues. The way certain people reacted as if he mentioned race as an issue tells more about those certain people than it does about Phil: Right?

Roger Kaputnik
Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 (01:12:25 pm EST)


QUOTE
Racism is not equal to awareness of race. I ask Why? Why is the majority of the police top ten wanted nonwhite? when it gets dark, what parts of town do runners and joggers avoid? Where do pizza delivery drivers watch over their shoulders more carefully? Can we discuss the issue without being accused of racism, prejudiced hatred, etc.? Let's do so, and as a ground rule, avoid the accusation of racism and the misuse of race to either excuse or condemn. Let's roll!

Roger Kaputnik
Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 (01:12:40 pm EST)


QUOTE
This is the first time I read the comments, and sadly I read the one from Phil, and I agree with you Sue. His comments sound very racist and you are right, it doesn't matter what color the child is they can and will get into trouble regardless of the up-bringing. Isn't there enough problems in this world without people like you Phil using the race card for the crime and bad things that happen?

Alma
Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 (12:12:14 pm EST)


QUOTE
Here we go again. Just read the police reports for Wednesday and see that four teens (14 and 15) were arrested on various charges in Michigan City. Everyone wonders what the problems are in Michigan City the answer may be found by checking the ethnicity of those punks. How about this? No parental supervision, family is on all the public handouts they can get to include medical care, food, unemployment, rental assistance, etc. Get my drift?

Phil
Friday, Dec 15, 2006 (09:12:25 pm EST)


I did a little editing to separate the quotes a little better, and to make it a little easier to read.

This post has been edited by southsider2k7: Dec 21 2006, 01:39 PM


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Southsider2k12
post Dec 21 2006, 01:47 PM
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Haven't seen a lot of stuff at the school level in this town first hand, I can say this much. (and statistics bear me out actually) Race has a lot less to do with how people end up in life, versus socioeconomic backround. Children raised below poverty levels, are a lot more likely to lose hope and turn to crime as a way of getting by, versus it being a black vs white thing.
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Roger Kaputnik
post Dec 21 2006, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE(southsider2k7 @ Dec 21 2006, 07:47 PM) *

Haven't seen a lot of stuff at the school level in this town first hand, I can say this much. (and statistics bear me out actually) Race has a lot less to do with how people end up in life, versus socioeconomic backround. Children raised below poverty levels, are a lot more likely to lose hope and turn to crime as a way of getting by, versus it being a black vs white thing.


In the vast majority of cases, kids do not 'turn to crime' to get food to eat or clothes to wear, or to help support a family. They use the extra money for bling and extras, not needed basics.


HEY MODERATOR: HOW DO YOU TURN OFF THE QUOTES when adding a reply??


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Ang
post Dec 21 2006, 05:15 PM
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I am one of the most color blind people you will meet. I do not judge a person by the color of their skin, what nationality they are or where moved from. People are people, plain and simple. However, I do think that crime and random acts of violence are higher among blacks and hispanics. Why is this? I don't know. But that seems to be the way it is. I know the MCPD 10 Most Wanted appear to primarily feature blacks, but that is not really true. I've paid attention to that thing and it goes up and down. There will be mostly blacks for a while, then mostly whites for a while. I've seen it a time or two be ALL white, but I've never seen it ALL black. So, I don't think there is any racial profiling going on there.
In my opinion based on observations, the crime and violence among hispanics mostly target other hispanics, not too much whites or blacks. Crime and Violence among blacks are mostly within neighborhoods that have black residents and for the most part is against other blacks. But, crime and violence by white people are against who ever happens to be in the way and can occur in any neighborhood. Please don't think I'm saying this is the way it is 100%, because there are exceptions to the rule. I'm saying that based on observations I have made, this appears to be the norm.
I also think that white people are more racist and bigoted than others, but I can't stand it when people pull a "race card" because they do not like what a person has to say. It's unfortunate that things have to be that way. Like the LaPorte thing. They want to get rid of illegal aliens. Well, I agree because those people are here ILLEGALLY (whether they be Hispanic, Chinese, or Martian). But, the councilman is called a racist and a bigot. He's not. He's just a guy who is trying to protect the citizens he was elected to protect. I'm sure the councelman wouldn't have a problem if those illegals got the proper Visa's, paid taxes on the wages they earned and became contributing members of society, just like the rest of our citizens.
Unfortunately, there will always be racism. No matter where you go, how you live, or what you do. God gave it to us when he made the Tower of Babel. I think what we need to do is rise above it individually and try our best to ignore those who think they are best because of the color of their skin, or the country they came from, or the diety they serve. I don't think it will ever truly go away, but we can try to elminate as much as we can.

Oh, and Roger, if you click on the "Add Reply" box under and outside of the last post, you will not get the quotes.


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Roger Kaputnik
post Dec 22 2006, 10:19 AM
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Ang, I do not agree that white people are more bigoted. I have heard plenty of blacks say ugly things about whites. It does seem that there is more feeling that it is wrong for whites to be racists but somehow understandable and acceptable for nonwhites to be racists. What do you think?


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BioTeach
post Dec 22 2006, 02:17 PM
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I also do not agree that most bigots are white. It is sad to hear kids carry on stereotypes, racism and bigotry. They are so desensitised that they do not even realize that they are doing so most of the time. One of the counselors showed a video at Elston this year on tolerance. That same day I had to address a student that called another student a "fag." Most of the kids really do have a big heart...they would do anything to help out a teacher for example. They do not maliciously spread hate, but they often seem doomed to repeat the lessons taught to them when perhaps no one thought they were listening.
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Ang
post Dec 26 2006, 03:53 PM
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I agree with the last part of Roger's statement and Bioteach made an excellent statement about stereotypes and remarks and not realizing it. But, I still think it's mostly whites (and in case you don't already know who I am, I am white) who are bigotted. It may seem like it's not that way because white people are not the minority. There are less black people so it seems that more are racist, but in reality it's not that way. How many times do you suppose a white person has been in a store and picked a different line because a black person was next, or drove an extra 5 miles to the gas station because they were on the Boulevard and didn't want to "take a chance" at Ramco or Duke of Oil? White people don't buy their liquor at 8th Street Liquors, they don't buy their groceries at that little place on 6th and the Blvd. They don't build homes on the West Side, or shop there either. Why do you suppose that is? Do you think blacks or mexicans avoid Trail Creek Liquors? Nope. Do they avoid certain gas stations? Do they not live in Village Green or Trail Creek? No. No. No. How many instances are there of a white landlord not renting to a black tenant, but have you ever known a black landlord not to rent to a white tennat? I think the majority (granted not all) racism by minorities is a defense mechanism due to racism by whites. You have to admit, we were pretty brutal in the past and not just against blacks, but against mexicans, asians, anyone whose skin is not white or eyes aren't round. White people want to think that we're past all that. Discrimination is a thing of the past. Everyone is equal and should be treated that way, but in reality it's just not the way it is.
I believe that people want to be past it. I know there are others out there who are color blind, who aren't afraid. Who embrace a person for who they are, not the color of their skin or the way they dress, or the music they listen to, or the religeon they practice. I don't think the world is one big bigot-fest. I just think that the majority of racist people in this country are white. I wish it weren't so, that gives the minorities all the more reason to cry fowl when they don't get something or when something bad happens to one of their own.


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Roger Kaputnik
post Dec 28 2006, 05:30 PM
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I for one do not avoid Mich Blvd after dark because of the race of people there; it is only because of the amount of crime there. It would be irresponsible of me to ignore that. I do go to the liquor store formerly known as Crown Liquors, in large part because when I was in high school, I made the honest mistake of buying Stroh's, mostly, at the old Kyle's Crown Liq when it was by the library. Call it old time's sake. It is fact that some of the areas Ang mentions as avoided by whites are areas that are higher crime areas and places where the neighborhood in largely nonwhite. What I would like this thread to explore is the relationship between those two observations.


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Southsider2k12
post Dec 29 2006, 10:37 AM
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The relationship between the two is directly tied to socioeconomic backround and education levels.
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Roger Kaputnik
post Jan 2 2007, 05:13 PM
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not all un- or undereducated folks are criminally minded, nor are all the poor. And there are plenty of well-educated or wealthy folks who are. Yet crime is higher in areas where the $ is less and the educational attainment is low, on average. Why?


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Southsider2k12
post Jan 2 2007, 06:04 PM
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If you are looking for an absolute answer to topics like this, you will never find one. Identifying trends and patterns is the closest you are going to get to having an answer.
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Roger Kaputnik
post Jan 3 2007, 08:55 AM
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Referring back to the title of the thread, I want to examine whether "socioeconomic factors" is just code for black, or rather, nonwhite.


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Roger Kaputnik
post Jan 11 2007, 01:10 PM
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Well, two more people are on the ten most wanted list: One Black man, one Black woman. What are the criteria to be on this list? I suppose we should look at the list at www.laportecountyprosecutor.com to see the racial distribution.


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Roger Kaputnik
post Jan 11 2007, 01:30 PM
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Eight out of ten.


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Roger Kaputnik
post Jul 23 2008, 12:55 PM
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This is an old thread but I did not want to start a new one and overload the system.


I want to discuss the racism (yes or no) in MCAS. I put forward the proposition that racism does exist in that the "emergency" of low test scores and low achievement by nonWhite students is not addressed adequately; the prima facie evidence is that it still occurs.


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ChickenCityRoller
post Jul 23 2008, 02:03 PM
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I'm not racict, I hate everyone. J/K, you could safely replace hate with love and you wouldn't be far off. I always try to find the best in everyone unless you get on my badside re: Chuck Morris, lol.
I moved back here with my wife (who's a half breed) back in '02. I've lived all over this country and in a couple different countries for that matter. The "N" word get's passed around wayyyyy to casually with people, sometimes by people who I respect. I don't find this normal behavior but I'm somewhat used to it. My wife is always shocked by it and hates it which makes me upset. I usual dismiss it as the person as being stupid.
I agree with SS'er. It has a lot to do with your socio-economic background. If you were born in a hell hole, it's often hard or impossible to turn your life around. I suppose that's why people sometimes say that excellence breeds excellence.


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Roger Kaputnik
post Jul 23 2008, 02:15 PM
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"Excellence breeds excellence" brings to mind a very self-satisfied couple at tea eyeing their children being brought in by the nanny.


I just do not see any urgency to the problem of making education successful more evenly in MC. Why does a China jaunt get top priority? Who really cares is kids actually learn?


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ChickenCityRoller
post Jul 23 2008, 02:24 PM
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QUOTE(Roger Kaputnik @ Jul 23 2008, 03:15 PM) *
"Excellence breeds excellence" brings to mind a very self-satisfied couple at tea eyeing their children being brought in by the nanny.


I just do not see any urgency to the problem of making education successful more evenly in MC. Why does a China jaunt get top priority? Who really cares is kids actually learn?




Someone said that to me the other day and it stuck but on many levels, it's true. You could say the same for the other end of the spectrum and you wouldn't be too far off base. When the parents are involved and want their children to have a better life than themselves, that's when change occurs. Don't think that the chemical engineer from India who is making change at the gas station has kids who are going to be doing the same job. They left their country with an education and a career to have a better life for their offspring even if many sacrifices need to be made


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Ang
post Jul 23 2008, 02:30 PM
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I don't know that it's actually an issue of racism as it is more socioeconomic back ground. There are extremely intelligent black kids in school, and there are extremely ignorant white kids and I don't think the color of your skin determines your ability to learn. What determines ones ability to learn is inside each individual. Most kids are caught up in the cycle of life their parents were in. Way back in the day, I think it was an issue because blacks weren't supposed to learn, they might become superior to whites, so their educations were supressed. Now a days, it's different. IMO if a black child is not learning, it is because they aren't being encouraged by their parents or the people close to them, just like white kids who don't learn.
I also think it is WRONG for test scores to be categorized by white kids and black kids. The test scores should just be test scores. Nothing more. MCAS is doing poorly because the test scores are down. Period.


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