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> Change to News-Dispatch web publication
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post Jul 30 2010, 08:26 AM
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Please discuss.

Website publication time change

Published: Thursday, July 29, 2010 8:35 PM CDT
Out of respect to our print edition subscribers and their committment to using The News-Dispatch as their local news source, The News -Dispatch website will now be updated at 5 p.m. daily. While we value our online readers, it's only fair that our loyal, paying customers of The News-Dispatch print edition have top priority when it comes to reading the news. For subscription information, call 219-874-7211.


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Ang
post Jul 30 2010, 08:41 AM
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I understand the "why" part of the change, but there are a lot of people who do not live in MC and it would be pointless for them to have a print copy of the paper sent to them because they live in places like CA, WY, Japan! These people are just as loyal to the N-D as those who pay for a printed copy of the paper. Is it fair to them that they now have to wait all day to catch their home town news simply because they are too far away to pay for a printed paper?


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post Jul 30 2010, 08:53 AM
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QUOTE(Ang @ Jul 30 2010, 09:41 AM) *

I understand the "why" part of the change, but there are a lot of people who do not live in MC and it would be pointless for them to have a print copy of the paper sent to them because they live in places like CA, WY, Japan! These people are just as loyal to the N-D as those who pay for a printed copy of the paper. Is it fair to them that they now have to wait all day to catch their home town news simply because they are too far away to pay for a printed paper?


I'd like to see if anyone has any better ideas. I sure do, but I'm not sure what I have to say would matter. If "actual readers" have good ideas, it seems to have more pull.


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Ang
post Jul 30 2010, 09:17 AM
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Well, the papers are delivered in the morning. People who get a printed paper typically start their day with the N-D. All papers are supposed to be delivered by a certain time that ends with a.m. Correct?

So, instead of 5 pm to update the online version, update it at 1 p.m. By then the print subscribers and people who buy their papers at gas stations and coffee shops will have their copies. Actually, noon is good because I know many times I've gone from place to place wanting to buy a print copy of the paper and if I don't get it before 11, the places are all out of them. I once went to 6 different gas stations, two coin-op machines, and three coffee places looking for a printed paper only to find them sold out every where. Finally, I called a friend who gave me theirs.

IMO, 5 pm is just waaayyyy toooooo late. Noon to 1 pm would be better.

I understand the 5 pm update for the H-A, since that is an afternoon paper, but the N-D is an a.m. paper, so the readers--ALL READERS--should be able to get their news early.


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Southsider2k12
post Jul 30 2010, 09:27 AM
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This is the same thinking that made Bill Wirtz black out TV for games that didn't sell out games back in the 90's. The world is passing the ND by. It isn't the web that is killing the paper here in town, it is a complete meltdown of both quality and quantity, plus a more expensive price. I can get the Chicago Tribune delivered at 5 am to my house daily for cheaper than I can the City paper. It has about 50 times the material, and it has a full web presence. That web presence has never stopped me from ordering it. All that means is the ND is going to be last and days behind on all stories, just like they are now. The people who run that newspaper are idiots. Their biggest problem has been a complete failure of the higher ups to utilize the web to any extent, like the rest of the world has. There is no twitter, no real on-line advertising, no reporters on the radio, no breaking news on the web, no facebook page, etc. The News Dispatch has completely failed at the 21st century.
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NDReporter
post Jul 30 2010, 09:56 AM
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QUOTE(southsiderMMX @ Jul 30 2010, 10:27 AM) *

This is the same thinking that made Bill Wirtz black out TV for games that didn't sell out games back in the 90's. The world is passing the ND by. It isn't the web that is killing the paper here in town, it is a complete meltdown of both quality and quantity, plus a more expensive price. I can get the Chicago Tribune delivered at 5 am to my house daily for cheaper than I can the City paper. It has about 50 times the material, and it has a full web presence. That web presence has never stopped me from ordering it. All that means is the ND is going to be last and days behind on all stories, just like they are now. The people who run that newspaper are idiots. Their biggest problem has been a complete failure of the higher ups to utilize the web to any extent, like the rest of the world has. There is no twitter, no real on-line advertising, no reporters on the radio, no breaking news on the web, no facebook page, etc. The News Dispatch has completely failed at the 21st century.


As far as quantity and quality in the N-D and H-A, how many reporters and editors does the Chicago Tribune have? I would venture to guess more than a dozen. And to be fair, web revenue is a challenge for any newspaper. Online advertising doesn't make up for the money people used to pay to read the news.

I can't comment on anything else tongue.gif

I suggest if you, as readers, have comments or suggestions on how to change this policy, to please send them to our editor, Chris Schable, at cschable@heraldargus.com.


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Southsider2k12
post Jul 30 2010, 10:12 AM
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QUOTE(NDReporter @ Jul 30 2010, 10:56 AM) *

As far as quantity and quality in the N-D and H-A, how many reporters and editors does the Chicago Tribune have? I would venture to guess more than a dozen. And to be fair, web revenue is a challenge for any newspaper. Online advertising doesn't make up for the money people used to pay to read the news.

I can't comment on anything else tongue.gif

I suggest if you, as readers, have comments or suggestions on how to change this policy, to please send them to our editor, Chris Schable, at cschable@heraldargus.com.


Yeah, the Trib was probably a bad example, but at the same time, I would bet even in smaller markets, the same would hold true.

Maybe I should offer my services to get them a real 21st century presence? smile.gif
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Dave
post Jul 30 2010, 11:57 AM
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my comment from the parallel "Yesterday's News Tomorrow" thread:
QUOTE(Dave @ Jul 30 2010, 12:46 PM) *

I was wondering if the Herald Argus had announced the same policy, so I did a search on their site for "announcement" and came across this interesting article:

http://www.heraldargus.com/articles/2010/0...f5791557394.txt

QUOTE

Front Announcement

Published: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:48 PM CDT
this is where your content goes.



Which seemed to be some kind of glitch, but I scrolled down to the comments section where some online readers were taking the H A to task for the quality of their online content. The most interesting comment was from H A Executive Editor Chris Schable ("Tell your" was one of the previous posters in the comments section):
QUOTE

H-A Executive Editor Chris Schable wrote on Jul 28, 2010 11:20 AM:
" "Tell your."
Just correcting some false information.
First of all, thank you for your continued support of the Herald-Argus, whether it be through subscribing to the print edition or the visiting the website.
1. We do update on the weekends. We do not have a Sunday publication, so once Saturday's news goes live, we don't post news again until Monday (now 5 p.m.).
2. Yes, advertisers on the website are paying for traffic, but advertisers in the print edition are as well. Giving the product away for free online makes our print product less valuable.
3. I would love to be able to have comments update immediately, but unfortunately, we have readers that can't control themselves when leaving comments. The amount and level of racism, sexism, vulgarity, baseless accusations, etc., is shocking and we can not trust commentors to follow the guidelines we've put in place.
We update them when we can. Remember, we're putting out what amounts to a small novel every day and approving comments on the website take a backseat to news gathering.
4. Newspapers are not failing due to this policy. In fact, there are more newspaper readers now than any time in history. The problem is, newspapers are giving away content for free online and that is where it is being read. We're the only industry in the world that pays to create a product and them simply gives it away. In some cases, like ours, we were giving away our product for free before it actually arrived to the homes of paying subscribers. That is a recipe for failure.
I'm willing to discuss this further. Give me a call or drop me an e-mail at cschable@heraldargus.com "


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Southsider2k12
post Jul 30 2010, 01:12 PM
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QUOTE(Dave @ Jul 30 2010, 12:57 PM) *

my comment from the parallel "Yesterday's News Tomorrow" thread:
Which seemed to be some kind of glitch, but I scrolled down to the comments section where some online readers were taking the H A to task for the quality of their online content. The most interesting comment was from H A Executive Editor Chris Schable ("Tell your" was one of the previous posters in the comments section):
2. Yes, advertisers on the website are paying for traffic, but advertisers in the print edition are as well. Giving the product away for free online makes our print product less valuable.
3. I would love to be able to have comments update immediately, but unfortunately, we have readers that can't control themselves when leaving comments. The amount and level of racism, sexism, vulgarity, baseless accusations, etc., is shocking and we can not trust commentors to follow the guidelines we've put in place.
We update them when we can. Remember, we're putting out what amounts to a small novel every day and approving comments on the website take a backseat to news gathering.
4. Newspapers are not failing due to this policy. In fact, there are more newspaper readers now than any time in history. The problem is, newspapers are giving away content for free online and that is where it is being read. We're the only industry in the world that pays to create a product and them simply gives it away. In some cases, like ours, we were giving away our product for free before it actually arrived to the homes of paying subscribers. That is a recipe for failure.


2. So their advertisers are worthless on line where they get more views than in the print? That doesn't make sense.

3. You can fix that pretty easily. Look no further than here for an example. Do like everyone else on the planet and make people register, that way they can be tracked and banned if needed in the cases of racism etc.

4. This is completely contradictory. If there are more readers, and they are on-line, and they have paying advertisers on-line, they wouldn't be losing money, because they wouldn't be "giving it away for free". Either they are making money on-line, or they aren't.

Like I said before, the whole rest of the news world seems to be able to manage these things together. The rest of the world has embraced the on-line community and put it to work to their advantage. At the end of the day it is completely obvious that the ND doesn't want to allocate the resources to make the web worth while to them. Instead they are trying to do this on the cheap and to force people to pay the 75 cents for the print edition, when they could make the money back through the web, and the reach of the web.
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Tom Burns
post Jul 30 2010, 02:48 PM
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QUOTE(southsiderMMX @ Jul 30 2010, 02:12 PM) *

2. So their advertisers are worthless on line where they get more views than in the print? That doesn't make sense.

3. You can fix that pretty easily. Look no further than here for an example. Do like everyone else on the planet and make people register, that way they can be tracked and banned if needed in the cases of racism etc.

4. This is completely contradictory. If there are more readers, and they are on-line, and they have paying advertisers on-line, they wouldn't be losing money, because they wouldn't be "giving it away for free". Either they are making money on-line, or they aren't.

Like I said before, the whole rest of the news world seems to be able to manage these things together. The rest of the world has embraced the on-line community and put it to work to their advantage. At the end of the day it is completely obvious that the ND doesn't want to allocate the resources to make the web worth while to them. Instead they are trying to do this on the cheap and to force people to pay the 75 cents for the print edition, when they could make the money back through the web, and the reach of the web.



There is a major development in management of the local newspapers in preparation at this moment and will soon be on WEFM.

However the management of the moment is only part of a bigger story. Newspapers for years have starved their young. Look at the salaries newspapers pay recent college graduates versus other media or salaries paid to those who go into other fields. They failed to build talent for the future.
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taxthedeer
post Jul 30 2010, 04:17 PM
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It's after 5PM?...Why hasn't it updated?
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Ang
post Jul 30 2010, 09:16 PM
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Because 5:00 is quittin' time!


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Tim
post Jul 30 2010, 09:52 PM
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While I've been vocal in my illumination of the ND's fall from grace in the quality department I'm starting to see the paper as being on life support. I just don't think there are people around to both get the paper out and get the site updated eariler. That's just a guess. But when push comes to shove, as it obviously has, who can really blame them for taking care of the people who pay for the paper before those of us who get it for free? If it's this or nothing, I'll take this.

And hey - the site often goes for days without being updated. So if they actually do update every day @ 5pm I see that as an improvement. Sad - but an improvement.
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Tim
post Jul 30 2010, 10:14 PM
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I posted this at the site -

So does this mean the webite won't sit for three days w/out being updated like it does now. What does that say about your business model when a cut in service actually yeilds an improvement?

I doubt they'll post it. I've done this before - it never appears.

Just looked at the site. All the headlines are from June 24th. That new policy is really working out!

Morons.
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NDReporter
post Jul 31 2010, 01:48 AM
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QUOTE(Tim @ Jul 30 2010, 11:14 PM) *

I posted this at the site -

So does this mean the webite won't sit for three days w/out being updated like it does now. What does that say about your business model when a cut in service actually yeilds an improvement?

I doubt they'll post it. I've done this before - it never appears.

Just looked at the site. All the headlines are from June 24th. That new policy is really working out!

Morons.


We're getting a lot of comments about the website not being updated the past few days, but that seems to have been fixed. We knew about it all day and were trying to get someone to fix it, as we weren't able to ourselves. I still don't know what happened.


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Tim
post Jul 31 2010, 02:33 AM
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QUOTE(NDReporter @ Jul 31 2010, 02:48 AM) *

We're getting a lot of comments about the website not being updated the past few days, but that seems to have been fixed. We knew about it all day and were trying to get someone to fix it, as we weren't able to ourselves. I still don't know what happened.



The ND has an online edition and the ND doesn't know how to fix it?

Really?
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edgeywood
post Jul 31 2010, 07:36 AM
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QUOTE(southsiderMMX @ Jul 30 2010, 02:12 PM) *

Like I said before, the whole rest of the news world seems to be able to manage these things together. The rest of the world has embraced the on-line community and put it to work to their advantage. At the end of the day it is completely obvious that the ND doesn't want to allocate the resources to make the web worth while to them. Instead they are trying to do this on the cheap and to force people to pay the 75 cents for the print edition, when they could make the money back through the web, and the reach of the web.


The "online community" doesn't have the credibility or the resources for the most part to provide a real news service. This board, as well as aggregators such as Google News depends on material from newspapers such as the N-D for content. Web ads are not as lucrative as print ads, so how do you pay for quality reporters, editors, investigative reporting, etc... ?

I was a subscriber to the Chicago Tribune for over 25 years. In the past few years, they've chosen to pursue a more entertainment (read cheaper to produce) oriented approach. There's less hard news, more "lifestyle" type stories. This drove away many loyal newspaper readers, such as myself. That was their solution to declining readership of the print edition.

I've also noticed a decline in the N-D, but in the interest of supporting local news, I choose to subscribe. I really don't care if someone else reads it for free on the web, but I do know that the web advertising business model is probably unsustainable.


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NDReporter
post Jul 31 2010, 10:52 AM
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QUOTE(Tim @ Jul 31 2010, 03:33 AM) *

The ND has an online edition and the ND doesn't know how to fix it?

Really?


I'm a reporter, not a web technician. We did all we knew to do, and it still wasn't fixed. Give me a break.


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post Jul 31 2010, 10:53 AM
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QUOTE(edgeywood @ Jul 31 2010, 08:36 AM) *

The "online community" doesn't have the credibility or the resources for the most part to provide a real news service. This board, as well as aggregators such as Google News depends on material from newspapers such as the N-D for content. Web ads are not as lucrative as print ads, so how do you pay for quality reporters, editors, investigative reporting, etc... ?

I was a subscriber to the Chicago Tribune for over 25 years. In the past few years, they've chosen to pursue a more entertainment (read cheaper to produce) oriented approach. There's less hard news, more "lifestyle" type stories. This drove away many loyal newspaper readers, such as myself. That was their solution to declining readership of the print edition.

I've also noticed a decline in the N-D, but in the interest of supporting local news, I choose to subscribe. I really don't care if someone else reads it for free on the web, but I do know that the web advertising business model is probably unsustainable.


Amen, edgeywood. Amen.


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post Jul 31 2010, 02:35 PM
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The reality is, for most newspapers the Web isn't making any money at all. Even at those publications where a hard-core, concerted effort is made to do so. I believe I've said this in this forum before, but the only way for newspapers to really make money from the Web edition is to charge for it, but the grave mistake in the beginning was giving it away for nothing. Now it's a bit like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube, know what I mean? It's true that many papers are very serious about their Web editions, but I think what you'd find there is they aren't making much money in doing so.

What's interesting to me is how readers who would normally happily pay for a print edition scoff at the idea of paying for the Web edition ...
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