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City Council start time poll
Currently meetings start at 7:30 pm, should they start earlier?
Yes, start them at 6pm [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
No, start them at 7:30pm like always [ 6 ] ** [54.55%]
Compromise and make it 7pm [ 5 ] ** [45.45%]
Total Votes: 11
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Southsider2k12
post Jan 31 2008, 12:31 PM
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What say you the general public... there is an ordinance being proposed to move up the City Council start times from 7:30 to 6pm. Is is a good idea or bad idea?
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RedDevilMC
post Jan 31 2008, 12:33 PM
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QUOTE(southsider2k7 @ Jan 31 2008, 12:31 PM) *

What say you the general public... there is an ordinance being proposed to move up the City Council start times from 7:30 to 6pm. Is is a good idea or bad idea?



Can you add a button for other or maybe 7pm?

Angie
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Southsider2k12
post Jan 31 2008, 12:35 PM
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QUOTE(RedDevilMC @ Jan 31 2008, 12:33 PM) *

Can you add a button for other or maybe 7pm?

Angie


Sure, I can add up to 10 options, so if you want 6:30pm as well, let me know.
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Dave
post Jan 31 2008, 02:08 PM
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When I heard about this proposed change, my thought was if they really want to cut down on public attendence, why not schedule the meetings for 5 p.m.?

How do they expect someone who holds a 9 to 5 job to be able to attend meetings if they schedule them for 6 p.m., or is that the whole point?
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post Jan 31 2008, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE(southsider2k7 @ Jan 31 2008, 12:31 PM) *

What say you the general public... there is an ordinance being proposed to move up the City Council start times from 7:30 to 6pm. Is is a good idea or bad idea?


If you want the public to be able to come, keep it at 7:30 (7:00 at the earliest).


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lovethiscity
post Feb 3 2008, 03:16 PM
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QUOTE(Dave @ Jan 31 2008, 02:08 PM) *

When I heard about this proposed change, my thought was if they really want to cut down on public attendence, why not schedule the meetings for 5 p.m.?

How do they expect someone who holds a 9 to 5 job to be able to attend meetings if they schedule them for 6 p.m., or is that the whole point?

Hey, at least they are not being as arrogant as the School Board was and trying to place time restrictions on public comment. Or will the time change achieve the same thing?
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Southsider2k12
post Feb 6 2008, 02:08 PM
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http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=54664.42

QUOTE
Time Change Still Debated
Some residents don’t want meeting to start before 7 p.m.

Jason Miller
The News-Dispatch

MICHIGAN CITY - For a vocal few residents who show up at nearly all Michigan City Council meetings, moving the board's start time to 6 or 6:30 p.m. is out of the question.

For many council members, though, the majority of public opinion they've heard is pushing for a start time around 6:30 p.m.

When it comes time to make a decision on changing times, the issue likely is to become even more heated.

"I realize this is a change. Everybody has a different take depending on their personal schedule," 1st-Ward councilman Richard Murphy said Tuesday night. "When I was a constituent, I always thought 7:30 was too late, and I've heard from a lot of people who think that, too."

The council amended an earlier ordinance Tuesday that sought to move the current start time from 7:30 to 6 p.m., changing the proposed new start time to 6:30 p.m.

Councilmembers Angie Starks, at-large, Pat Boy, 4th ward, Phil Jankowski, 6th ward, and president Ron Meer, 3rd ward, each voted against the amendment. They have said they'll likely vote against starting meetings earlier than 7 p.m.

At-large councilman Joe Doyle pointed Tuesday to a group of high school students sitting in the back of the council chambers.

"For the last four years, many students had one question when they came to meetings for class and that was, why do you start so late?" Doyle said. "They couldn't attend full meetings. It's more convenient for the young people who don't want to be here late at night."

In opposition to the change, several residents said 7:30 p.m. is the earliest most working people can get to meetings. Many, Pine Street resident Joan Chumley said, wouldn't have time to go home from work and "feed their children" if the want to get to a meeting.

Boy agreed, saying the job of council members isn't always easy.

"I didn't sign up for this to be convenient for myself," she said. "If we cut too much time for people to give their input, we're really missing something."

Starks said over the past three years, council meeting have been relatively short, referring to meeting minutes how the council only had five meetings in 2007 that lasted more than two hours.

"I don't think it's appropriate for the benefit of the public to have meetings before 7 p.m.," she said. "We have the opportunity to speak after every (agenda) item, so we don't need to start earlier."

The council likely will decide on the issue at its next meeting in two week
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Southsider2k12
post Feb 6 2008, 02:42 PM
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http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=56713.09

QUOTE
Council Trying To Limit Public Comment
At the Jan. 15 meeting, City Council members Willie Milsap, Joe Doyle and Bob McKee proposed an amendment that would change the start time of the council meetings from 7:30 p.m. to 6 p.m. Ostensibly, the reasoning behind this amendment is to increase public participation.

I suspect something else is afoot. Perhaps those council members think there has been a bit too much public participation recently. When crowds of angry citizens turn up at the City Council meetings to voice their opinions about nepotism and minority hiring practices, the well oiled political machine grinds to a halt.

Councilperson McKee stated that the "lateness of the meetings" discourages people from staying until the public comment period. If he had bothered to look up the statistics on last year's meetings, he'd find that that the majority were under 90 minutes. Looking back over the last three years, the average meeting ended about 9 p.m., hardly a late night even for the earliest risers.

Most working people don't have the ability to adjust their work schedules. By starting a meeting at 6 p.m., the City Council creates a hardship for working people. It may come as a surprise to Milsap, Doyle and McKee but folks that punch a time clock don't have the option of leaving work a few minute early to attend a 6 p.m. meeting.

City Council meetings afford an increasingly rare opportunity for public participation. Don't let them cut you off. Keep the 7:30 p.m. start time.

Sharon Carnes

Michigan City
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Southsider2k12
post Feb 15 2008, 01:33 PM
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http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=52604.78

QUOTE
Leave Council Times As They Are
On Tuesday, Feb. 19, the Michigan City Common Council will vote on an ordinance to change the meeting start time from 7:30 to 6:30 p.m. The ordinance is intended to increase public participation, according to authors Bob McKee, Joe Doyle and Willie Milsap. However well intentioned this ordinance may be, it will actually reduce public attendance.

Many of those who work at the steel mill are on a 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. swinging schedule. They are already hard pressed to arrive before the first resolution.

South Shore riders probably will not make the beginning of a 6:30 meeting if they leave work in Chicago at 5. If the City Council does not care about those commuters, then why are they spending so much time talking about where the train station belongs?

There are already three other public government meetings on the first or third Tuesday of each month, the LaPorte County Board of Commissioners, the County Visitor and Convention Bureau, and the Michigan City Human Rights Commission. The current City Council start time does permit attendance at these other meetings, but if the time is changed to 6:30 public participation will be impossible or more difficult.

If it truly is the City Council's intention to encourage citizen participation, then they will leave the start time as it is. However, if it is not their desire to hear what the people of Michigan City have to say, then they will change the start time to 6:30. Then, we should expect that future ordinances would eliminate public comment on resolutions and ordinances. We should expect to see an ordinance to limit public comment to three minutes at the end of the meeting, and eventually an ordinance that eliminates public comment entirely.

Perhaps most ironic, if this ordinance passes, no one will get to Galveston any earlier, because the meetings are still going to end at 9, on average.

Larry Silvestri

Michigan City
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Dave
post Feb 15 2008, 02:12 PM
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Anyone have Sharon Carnes' or Larry Silvertri's email addresses? I'd like to see them on CBTL!
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RedDevilMC
post Feb 15 2008, 02:16 PM
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Of course I do. I've told them about it and you never know....they may be out here already.....hmmm!
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lovethiscity
post Feb 15 2008, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE(Dave @ Feb 15 2008, 02:12 PM) *

Anyone have Sharon Carnes' or Larry Silvertri's email addresses? I'd like to see them on CBTL!

Dave I could be Sharon. Or maybe Larry. Or maybe not.
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Dave
post Feb 16 2008, 10:05 AM
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QUOTE(lovethiscity @ Feb 15 2008, 08:55 PM) *

Dave I could be Sharon. Or maybe Larry. Or maybe not.


I'm Sparticus! biggrin.gif
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Ang
post Feb 16 2008, 12:35 PM
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QUOTE(Dave @ Feb 16 2008, 09:05 AM) *

I'm Sparticus! biggrin.gif


I'm hungry


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JHeath
post Feb 22 2008, 12:24 PM
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http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=48169.68

QUOTE
2/22/2008 10:58:00 AM
City Council Moving Its Meeting Time To 6:30 p.m.

Jason Miller
The News-Dispatch

MICHIGAN CITY - Despite an effort by a group of residents and a petition with nearly 200 names, the City Council will move the start time for its meetings.

"If they want to be there, then they'll come. They've proven that a million times," At-Large Councilman Joe Doyle said Thursday. "There's a certain group of people who want to tell the City Council what to do on every issue as if they're on the council."

Meetings on the first and third Tuesdays of each month now will begin at 6:30 p.m., an hour earlier than the longtime starting point of 7:30 p.m. Doyle pushed for a time change last year, saying he'd heard from many resident who say 7:30 p.m. is too late.

Doyle ended up withdrawing his proposal in 2007 after residents complained and a lack of council support. With four new members on the board this year, however, the move passed 5-4. Third-Ward Councilman Ron Meer, 4th-Ward Councilwoman Pat Boy, 6th-Ward Councilman Phil Jankowski and At-Large Councilwoman Angie Starks all voted no.

Starks said the response from residents should've been enough to shoot down the ordinance. In addition to the petition, she said comparably sized cities throughout Indiana begin their meetings after 7 p.m.

"I never heard one person speak for it," she said. "No matter when we start, we're still going to be there until 9:30. This way, we're just adding on another hour."

A group of community members and regulars at City Council meetings vocally opposed the time change on several occasions, and spoke against it Tuesday night.

Opponents accused the council of changing the time to squelch public comment.

"That's crazy," Doyle said. "Everyone I've heard from says they can't get there now because we start so late. This will be the best thing."



Contact reporter Jason Miller at jmiller@thenewsdispatch.com.

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Southsider2k12
post Mar 3 2008, 02:16 PM
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http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=55192.98

QUOTE
Council Forgot Who Put Them In Office
On the recent issue of changing the time for the City Council meetings from 7:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m., I blame amnesia on the part of council persons who voted for the change. Those council persons are: Richard Murphy, 1st Ward; Marc Espar, 2nd Ward; Willie Milsap, 5th Ward; and Joe Doyle and Bob McKee, council at-large.

Apparently these elected officials, voted in by the people, have forgotten that "the people" are who they should represent. The people are the reason they hold those seats. After viewing the Feb. 18 debacle, I was saddened and upset.

First and foremost, they totally ignored the petition of nearly 200 constituents who were opposed to the change. Their facts and the petition were not even acknowledged. Apparently it was determined that no matter what the public outcry, their votes were not to change.

Mr. Murphy (very disappointed) and Mr. Milsap - you both ran unopposed in the November 2007 election. I'm sure you won't be alone in your races for the next terms (if you run).

Mr. Espar, let me remind you that your margin of victory was only 78 votes (436-357).

Leaving Mr. Doyle and Mr. McKee. Shame on you both! You both are representatives for the entire city. The people voted against this change and you both basically snubbed your noses at YOUR people.

I did not hear one speaker from the audience that justified or supported the change of time. Mr. Murphy said something, but the rest of the supporters sat in silence, giving no reason whatsoever. Your constituents will remember your vote and your silence.

So, while you glory over your victory on this issue, think of those petitioners (180+ signatures). These 180+ signatures can make you or break you. But most of all, I hope it brings to your memory what your office entails. Representation of the people is crucial to the success of our city. Your oath in December gave me false hope as to how I am being represented.

I suggest every council person read an on-line blog in The News-Dispatch by Jason Miller the day after the election. The date is November 7, 2007, in the City Confidential section. The title is "Don't Let the Voters Down."

Finally, I hope this council will from this day forward do the right thing and represent their constituents. There is a saying that "Silence is golden" but in this case it has left an ugly stain on our representatives and MY silence will be represented in the next election.

Freda K. Nelson

Michigan City


QUOTE
Article comment by: Barry Young

Council Forgot Who Put Them In Office
I am amazed that with all the problems that Michigan City has, so many people have decided that the time for the city council meetings to start has ranked as the most important thing facing the city. I remember going to city council meetings that lasted well past ten o'clock and wondering why they started so late, and, of course, others that were over almost before they started, or should have been. The ideal thing to do would have been to have a 7pm start time, thereby each faction would have had to give a little to get a little. Then perhaps Michigan City could get on with the important things facing it. Oh, sorry, I forgot that is not how Michigan City works, or doesn't work.
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Dave
post Mar 3 2008, 09:44 PM
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I have to say that I would have preferred the 7 p.m. start time, but 6:30 isn't a deal breaker for me (6 p.m. would have been a bit much).

To tell the truth, they can start their meetings at 2 p.m. or 2 a.m. for all I care, so long as they get some good works done. On the other hand, they could meet at 7:30 p.m. in my front yard, but it wouldn't matter if they just screw around.

Why the folks who voted for the change thought it was worth the political capital they've burned to do this, however, is a bit beyond me. Anyone have any rampant speculation/rumors/gossip that I haven't heard already on that?
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Southsider2k12
post Mar 4 2008, 02:06 PM
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http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=54531.68

QUOTE
Meeting Times
City Council Accused Of Stifling Public

Editorial

Talk about an overblown tempest in a teapot. The fuss that's being made over the time change for Michigan City Common Council meetings is not only ridiculous, but it shows just how deep-seated the community's aversion to any kind of change really is.

Moving the meeting time from 7:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. should have been a no-brainer. Instead, it was debated for months with those opposed clinging to the idea that somehow changing the start time is a conspiracy by the council to keep the public from voicing their opinion.

It's not as if the Michigan City Common Council is bucking a trend. The La Porte County Council meets at 6:30 p.m. The La Porte County Commissioners meet twice a month, at 6 p.m. and 10 a.m. Michigan City Area Schools Board meets at 6 p.m.

Members of the public find ways to attend those meetings and it will be that way with the new start time for the Michigan City Common Council, too.

The idea for the change in start time was to make it more convenient for the public. With a 7:30 p.m. start time, city council meetings sometimes didn't adjourn until 10 p.m., and with public comment last on the agenda, many people left before they had a chance to have their say.

Councilman Joe Doyle noticed that and suggested the change. Doyle, by the way, used to be a member of the city's Park Board, which meets at 5 p.m., and public turnout for that meeting is not a problem.

Doyle said he's puzzled by those who say the earlier time is an attempt to stifle public comment.. "That's crazy. Everyone I've heard from says they can't get there now because we start so late."

The argument over the time change underscores a resistance to any kind of change that's prevalent in the city. Change is needed to move Michigan City forward. Change has been embraced in Valparaiso, Chesterton, New Buffalo, South Bend and other places where new businesses have opened and new development is taking place. If residents want to know why the city has languished while its neighbors have moved forward, this ridiculous argument over when to start city council meetings is Exhibit A.

Our Opinion
The Issue: Some people argued against the Common Council's decision to move meetings from 7:30 p.m. to 6:30.

Our Opinion: The idea was to make it easier for public participation. Objections are just an illustration of how some people are simply against change.
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Ang
post Mar 4 2008, 02:46 PM
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OK. The ND Opinion item is a little rude IMO. Lots of people out there want change. I won't come home until there are changes in MC. And therein lies the problem. The people who are against change are the loud ones, doing whatever they can to be heard. The ones who want the change are the silent majority. Maybe this article was intended to incite the silent majority and bait them into coming forward with their desire for change?


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Southsider2k12
post Mar 4 2008, 02:53 PM
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It could be. The minority has been silent in Michigan City for too long. The punch 10 mentality of voting for the names that are on the ballot every year has gotten Michigan City and LaPorte County where? The big problem is that the opposition groups aren't organized at all, while the good old boys network is pretty tightly strung together. Really there need to be a person to emerge from the shadows to give people hope again. If you look at the arc that Barack Obama has been on, that is the same kind of thing possible in City. The anger is there, but the fight for a better day is disorganized. It needs to start at the grassroots level. If the right person comes along, this City is there for the taking.
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