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> Pelath to chair immigration panel
Southsider2k12
post Jun 23 2008, 02:22 PM
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http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/200...e0502026563.txt

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INDIANAPOLIS | State Rep. Scott Pelath, a Michigan City Democrat, will co-chair a legislative panel charged with studying the politically-charged issue of illegal immigration.

Efforts to create a three-tiered punishment system for Indiana companies that knowingly hire illegal immigrants fizzled in the final days of this year's legislative session, when the Democratic-led House and Republican-dominated Senate could not agree on the details.

Pelath, a top lieutenant of Democratic House Speaker Pat Bauer, said, ""Because Washington has sidestepped immigration reform, many have demanded that state governments step up and assume the role of leadership," Pelath said.

"However, it is unclear whether a single state like Indiana has the power, capabilities or resources needed to act in a meaningful way. This committee will provide a means to see what can be done at the state level or whether this is truly a federal issue."
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Roger Kaputnik
post Jun 23 2008, 03:55 PM
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Meaningful discussion of illegal immigration...hmmmmmm...it could happen!


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Dan
post Jun 25 2008, 08:38 AM
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I think the topic has been discussed to death. Spending a single day on the internet will give you all the information and ideas you need.

1. A company should be fined $5,000 fine for each illegal immigrant employed.

2. After a max of $100,000 in fines, the entire assets of the company become forfeit to the State for public auction.

3. Any illegal immigrant found to be in the state past their Visa Expiration date will be arrested and detained until deported.

4. Any illegal immigrant caught working in the State will have all of their assets sized, and the proceeds of the sale thereof will pay for the costs to deport them.

5. Any citizen giving aid or comfort to any illegal alien of any kind will be fined $5000 and 30 days in jail for each offense.

6. All public funds and programs that aid or comfort illegal aliens will be immediately canceled.

It's simple. Really it is.

The invasion our country is enduring is a slap in the face to those of us who went through the immigration process the proper and legal way (like me).

If you come in legally, I'll invite you over to my house for beer and brats.
If you sneak in and avoid becoming a part of this country, then I will fight for your removal with my last breath.
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Ang
post Jun 25 2008, 09:25 AM
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I agree that we need tougher immigration laws, and I like your thinking, but I do think it's a little severe. I could see the makings of a witch hunt.


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Dan
post Jun 25 2008, 11:25 AM
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Sometimes severe situations cause for severe measures. My wife and I spend years and thousands of dollars doing it the right way. And equally important, she knows that America is a melting pot, not a salad bowl.

Did you know that if you went to Mexico, you would not be allowed to:

Get free health care
Get free legal representation
Get a free education
Get a driver's license
Own land
Work

Why do we grant all of these privileges to people who are not even citizens of our country? Why do they get the same benefits, protection and freedom that my wife and I do?

I am very passionate about this topic, so please excuse any vitriolic comments.
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Dave
post Jun 25 2008, 11:27 AM
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I guess we'd best start building bigger jails - per wiki, there are something like 13 million people living in households where the head of the household or the spouse are illegal immigrants.

I don't disagree with the idea that immigration laws should be enforced, I just have no practical idea as to how that would be done.

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Roger Kaputnik
post Jun 25 2008, 02:59 PM
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I can tell you that I am foursquare against "Danstapo" tactics as outlined above. I will be against concentration camps of illegal aliens and wholesale forfeitures of property--sounds dreadfully unAmerican! May I direct the Gentle Reader to the chapters on German society in the early parts of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, by William Shirer? The thoughtful reader will see the warning signs in contemporary American society.


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JHeath
post Jun 25 2008, 03:09 PM
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QUOTE(Roger Kaputnik @ Jun 25 2008, 03:59 PM) *

I can tell you that I am foursquare against "Danstapo" tactics as outlined above. I will be against concentration camps of illegal aliens and wholesale forfeitures of property--sounds dreadfully unAmerican! May I direct the Gentle Reader to the chapters on German society in the early parts of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, by William Shirer? The thoughtful reader will see the warning signs in contemporary American society.

Once again, I agree with Roger, and with Dave:
QUOTE
I don't disagree with the idea that immigration laws should be enforced, I just have no practical idea as to how that would be done.


I grew up in a Jewish family, and lived not just in MC, but also in a suburb just north of Chicago. When we lived there, I attended a hebrew day school (the equivalent of our local parochials, but for Jewish kids), where we regularly experienced anti-semetic grafitti on the walls, broken windows, and other things. We were taught about the Holocaust from a very young age...and, at the same time, to accept others and to appreciate our differences.

It's just not an easy issue to resolve.
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Roger Kaputnik
post Jun 25 2008, 03:11 PM
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The issue of illegal immigration is difficult. The issue of scapegoating and terrorizing is easy: Don't do it!


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Dave
post Jun 25 2008, 04:40 PM
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Dan, I'm curious, where are you and your wife from?

Personally, I like the idea of going after the employers of illegal immigrants. I think knowingly employing someone without the proper credentials ( and this would mean having a valid social security number) should result in some hefty fines. Some allowances could be made for seasonal farm laborers, I suppose -- or we could get used to paying more for fresh produce.
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Southsider2k12
post Jun 26 2008, 08:34 AM
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Its no big secret that we do things wrong on immigration in this country. There is no reason to follow the rules as they stand now, so people don't.

Personally I would like to see the entire system completely overhauled to look more like this...

The biggest reason that people come here is for jobs and a chance at a new life, yet industry has no real say in how immigration takes place. I would like to see groups from the leading trade industries consulted, and on a year to year basis determine how many people we need for the various sectors of the US economy. Instead of trying to get to America, people would apply at American Embassies in their home countries for the various positions, submitting essentially resumes to get into the country. Preference would be given to people in situations where their lives are in immediate danger, such as places where war and famine were taking place. Citizenship would be given automatically after a midrange period of time where the immigrants didn't break any important laws, and paid their taxes.

People entering the country illegally would be permanently banned from ever entering the country again.

Companies hiring illegals would be subject to fines of $50,000 an employee.

To me it is win-win. You bring people to the country who REALLY need a new start. In the US you control the situation and fill your real needs by cooperating with corporate America. You give a visible and clear path to citizenship for those who want it, and you don't complicate it with a bunch of red tape. We have a whole governmental department dedicated to immigration, so we don't even new new bureaucrats. On the other end you remove the "incentives" that the system currently contains for making it to the US illegally, both by the employer and the employee.
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Roger Kaputnik
post Jun 26 2008, 11:25 AM
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A lot of immigration law is about as you describe. I do not trust "corporate America" as much as you do, so I would not have them specifying who was wanted. First come, first serve!


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The_Mikester
post Jun 30 2008, 05:36 PM
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Ola Amigos! Vivo en el estado de Norte Mexico donde hay muchos muchachos Mexicanos!

Er, pardon me... I live in North Texas and I think I AM FORGETTING ENGLISH!!!!!

OK, I just have one message for Jorge Bush (el president y amigo de Vicente Fox!!!)

STOP THE LIES!!!!!!

George, I voted for you EVERY TIME YOU RAN FOR GOVENOR AND PRESIDENTE! SI!!!!

I used to laugh derisively when my sister-in-law said that Big Business owned the Republican party.... I don't now!!! Not that I think the Democrat party is any better, they just have different folks they want to sell us to!!!!

GEORGE BUSH! STOP THE LIES! STOP TELLING EVERYONE THAT ILLEGALS JUST WANT THE JOBS AMERICANS DON'T!!!! MY BROTHER COMPETES WITH ILLEGALS LESS THAN HALF HIS AGE FOR CONSTRUCTION JOBS!!!! TELL THE TRUTH GEORGE! THE ONLY REASON AMERICANS MIGHT NOT WANT THESE JOBS IS BECAUSE THEY PAY THE SAME AS THEY DID TWENTY YEARS AGO!!!!

OK folks, lest you think I am a racist, I do have a black brother-in-law, I love him, he is great. I have a sister-in-law (not the previously mentioned one...) who is half Japanese. My ex-son-in-law, who I still have lunch with, is Hispanic. I have some friends who are here illegally.... I don't blame them for coming, I would too! I just get really P.O.'D WHEN GEORGE BUSH LIES TO ME AND DOESN'T ENFORCE IMMIGRATION LAW! WE DON'T NEED TO FIX IMMIGRATION! WE NEED TO ENFORCE THE LAWS ON THE BOOKS NOW!!!! WE NEED FEWER HOSPITALS HAVING TO CLOSE BECAUSE BILLS ARE NOT BEING PAID!!! WE NEED FEWER SCHOOLS HAVING TO ERECT DOZENS OF TEMPORARY BUILDINGS!!!!

AND WE NEED A PRESIDENT (AND CONGRESS) TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO US RATHER THAN US BEING THEIR SERFS!!!!

OK, I think I am done now....

Say, does anyone listen to Glenn Beck? Has anyone heard about the Mexican military guys (I have not heard if they were ex-military or not) who did a hit in Phoenix, AZ for a drug cartel? And the firepower they had? And how they would have ambushed some Phoenix PD officers except that they ran out of ammo? THANKS GEORGE! THANKS A BUNCH! LET'S ALL HAVE A MULTICULTURAL HUG!!!

HOW ABOUT THE MEXICAN DRUG DEALERS USING OUR NATIONAL PARKS TO GROW POT SO THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE TO CARRY IT OVER? OR ILLEGALS CARRYING DRUGS OVER TO PAY THEIR COYOTES???? OR OTHER INSTANCES OF CROSS-BORDER INCURSIONS BY MEXICAN MILITARY?

ESTAMOS EN LOS ESTADOS UNIDOS!!!

PERHAPS WE SHOULD TREAT ILLEGALS LIKE MEXICO TREATS THE FOLKS WHO SNEAK ACROSS IT'S SOUTHERN BORDER!!!! NANCY PELOSI WOULD REALLY HAVE SOMETHING TO SCREAM ABOUT THEN....

I think I am done now.... I think...
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Ang
post Jun 30 2008, 07:14 PM
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So, Mikester, tell us how you really feel.
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Dave
post Jun 30 2008, 08:48 PM
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While I don't dispute the claim that US immigration policy is FUBAR, Mikester,

QUOTE(The_Mikester @ Jun 30 2008, 06:36 PM) *



...Has anyone heard about the Mexican military guys (I have not heard if they were ex-military or not) who did a hit in Phoenix, AZ for a drug cartel? And the firepower they had? And how they would have ambushed some Phoenix PD officers except that they ran out of ammo?


This sounds interesting. Perchance do you have a link to a news source for this?

QUOTE

HOW ABOUT THE MEXICAN DRUG DEALERS USING OUR NATIONAL PARKS TO GROW POT SO THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE TO CARRY IT OVER?


Do you really think this is something exclusively done by illegal immigrants?

QUOTE
OR OTHER INSTANCES OF CROSS-BORDER INCURSIONS BY MEXICAN MILITARY?


Any links for those either? I do seem to recall something about Blackjack Pershing and Zapata, but that went both ways as I recall.

QUOTE
PERHAPS WE SHOULD TREAT ILLEGALS LIKE MEXICO TREATS THE FOLKS WHO SNEAK ACROSS IT'S SOUTHERN BORDER!!!! NANCY PELOSI WOULD REALLY HAVE SOMETHING TO SCREAM ABOUT THEN....


Gee, first you're P.O.'d at Bush, then you're P.O.'d at Pelosi (Bush's opposition, if one hasn't noticed). I'll agree that Mexico's policy towards their southern border is substantially different from their policy towards their northern border (as is ours -- haven't heard many calls for a border fence between the US and Canada myself). I think Mexico must really have some issues if 40% of their population want to live here instead of there (and here's my link, and another link to the source material), but unless the appropriate people (Congress, I think) decide to admit Mexico as the 51st state, I don't see why Mexico should have any input as to US immigration policy.

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Roger Kaputnik
post Jul 1 2008, 08:08 AM
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Just for the Gentle Reader's edification, I will point out that being against Bush does not mean being for Pelosi. That is the false dichotomy the ideologues of both parties advance. To the extent they succeed in this, the majority of us who do not adhere to the Party Line lose our voice in gov't. Fight the urge to go along with them!


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Southsider2k12
post Jul 1 2008, 08:14 AM
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QUOTE(Roger Kaputnik @ Jul 1 2008, 09:08 AM) *

Just for the Gentle Reader's edification, I will point out that being against Bush does not mean being for Pelosi. That is the false dichotomy the ideologues of both parties advance. To the extent they succeed in this, the majority of us who do not adhere to the Party Line lose our voice in gov't. Fight the urge to go along with them!


Great post. Its the us versus them mentality that is killing politics today and ensures that one of these groups is always in power.

I personally don't think either party has done right by immigration.
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Ang
post Jul 1 2008, 08:43 AM
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I'm not so sure they've done right by anything!


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Dave
post Jul 1 2008, 10:41 AM
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QUOTE(southsider2k7 @ Jul 1 2008, 09:14 AM) *

Great post. Its the us versus them mentality that is killing politics today and ensures that one of these groups is always in power.

I personally don't think either party has done right by immigration.


I'll agree with both parties failing re: Immigration.

One of the problems I have with the two parties we have is that there is too much overlap -- there are conservative Democrats who are more conservative than liberal Republicans.

Honestly, is there a question you could ask a Democrat that s/he would have to answer "yes" that a Republican would have to answer "no," other than "Are you a Democrat?" And vice versa for a Republican?

But what alternatives do we have to the Democrats and the Republicans? The Libertarians? I like a lot of Libertarian policy, but some stuff (go back on the gold standard? Privatize the interstate highway system?) is just too far off the deep end. And the Greens might get a little more respect from me if they quit running Nader, who isn't really all that "green," they pick him for name recognition and he goes with them because it keeps his name in the news.
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Southsider2k12
post Jul 1 2008, 12:29 PM
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QUOTE(Dave @ Jul 1 2008, 11:41 AM) *

I'll agree with both parties failing re: Immigration.

One of the problems I have with the two parties we have is that there is too much overlap -- there are conservative Democrats who are more conservative than liberal Republicans.

Honestly, is there a question you could ask a Democrat that s/he would have to answer "yes" that a Republican would have to answer "no," other than "Are you a Democrat?" And vice versa for a Republican?

But what alternatives do we have to the Democrats and the Republicans? The Libertarians? I like a lot of Libertarian policy, but some stuff (go back on the gold standard? Privatize the interstate highway system?) is just too far off the deep end. And the Greens might get a little more respect from me if they quit running Nader, who isn't really all that "green," they pick him for name recognition and he goes with them because it keeps his name in the news.


Welcome to my world. My big philosophy is that if I am not hurting anyone, no one should bother me, both in my wallet AND in my bedroom. I guess like most, I take my most important issues and find the people who most closely align with me.
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