[Ang]

Obviously people don't understand the meaning of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[Southsider2k12]

The only thing I don't understand is what happens to the shops? They still need a place to store, fix, and re-arrange trains. If they reroute that far south, how do they get to the shops?

[Dave]

I suppose that's part of why it's supposed to cost so much. If they move the station to Ame's Field, they have to get the trains back to the Carroll St. facility. From what I can see on Google Earth mapping, they would have to lay about a mile of track east of the Beverly Shores station to get to an existing rail line, which would take them past Ame's Field, and then there would have to be some kind of addition near the Carroll St. facility to get them back to the yards.

I still think my idea would work better and be cheaper. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

[Roger Kaputnik]

Sixty mill would go FAR in urban renewal along the tracks. Someone wants to move the tracks, and we need to find out who and what interest that person or people have along the right of way.

[Southsider2k12]

I suppose that's part of why it's supposed to cost so much. If they move the station to Ame's Field, they have to get the trains back to the Carroll St. facility. From what I can see on Google Earth mapping, they would have to lay about a mile of track east of the Beverly Shores station to get to an existing rail line, which would take them past Ame's Field, and then there would have to be some kind of addition near the Carroll St. facility to get them back to the yards.

I still think my idea would work better and be cheaper. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Unless a part of the $60-80 million cost is a new, state of the art facility for the shops, then it would make a little more sense.

[Southsider2k12]

Sixty mill would go FAR in urban renewal along the tracks. Someone wants to move the tracks, and we need to find out who and what interest that person or people have along the right of way.

If someone was really willing to poor that kind of money into the northside, we could fix a lot of things. We could get the streets and traffic flow fixed, we could get the views fixed, and we could turn that area into the picture postcard that it used to be.

[Roger Kaputnik]

A fourth of that money would be significant.

[mcstumper]

I suppose that's part of why it's supposed to cost so much. If they move the station to Ame's Field, they have to get the trains back to the Carroll St. facility. From what I can see on Google Earth mapping, they would have to lay about a mile of track east of the Beverly Shores station to get to an existing rail line, which would take them past Ame's Field, and then there would have to be some kind of addition near the Carroll St. facility to get them back to the yards.

I still think my idea would work better and be cheaper. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

The South Shore has an existing interchange with CSX east of Michigan City that could be used. However they would have to back the trains into and out of the shops and then onto the main line. I imagine that they would try to acquire the property on the southwest corner of the current crossing and build a spur there for interchange.

[Dave]

The South Shore has an existing interchange with CSX east of Michigan City that could be used. However they would have to back the trains into and out of the shops and then onto the main line. I imagine that they would try to acquire the property on the southwest corner of the current crossing and build a spur there for interchange.

I saw that, the interchange is east of the Carroll St. yards, so I assume they wouldn't want to do a switchback with every train. What would a switchback do to all that time they are claiming they will save by moving from 11th street?

Of course, maybe they would just close the Carroll street passenger facility altogether. Someone I know speculates that the whole motivation for moving the train line is to get it out of the North End "Ghetto" (where I happen to live, thankyouverymuch) to where the folks on the south end of town would feel more comfortable using it. I'd like to see the News Dispatch do a little investigative reporting, to see if anyone involved in the decision making process has been purchasing real estate on or near the proposed new route.

[Southsider2k12]

I saw that, the interchange is east of the Carroll St. yards, so I assume they wouldn't want to do a switchback with every train. What would a switchback do to all that time they are claiming they will save by moving from 11th street?

Of course, maybe they would just close the Carroll street passenger facility altogether. Someone I know speculates that the whole motivation for moving the train line is to get it out of the North End "Ghetto" (where I happen to live, thankyouverymuch) to where the folks on the south end of town would feel more comfortable using it. I'd like to see the News Dispatch do a little investigative reporting, to see if anyone involved in the decision making process has been purchasing real estate on or near the proposed new route.

I think you hit on on something important here, what exactly is our motivation and our goals if we move the tracks.

Is our goal to improve the quality of life for our citizens by making the commute to work/Chicago a little bit shorter, or is it to improve the commute to attract tourists to Michigan City? I think the answer tells us whether we want to move the tracks north or south. If we decide we want to make things attractive to come out here, we need to move the tracks north into the tourism triangle of the beach, the mall, and the boat. Tourists really aren't going to care about the southend of town, as they can get that stuff anywhere else. They want what makes MC unique. Now if we are looking at making life easier for ourselves, then we look at moving the tracks south. One thing to remember, is if the goal is to save time, its not like this will make the trip THAT much shorter. The SS trains are only allowed a top speed of 79mph. They already take 1 hour and 20 minutes to get to the Chesterton stop. My highly unscientific guess, based on about 9 years of commuting on the SS, is that we could save a little less than 5 minutes for people used to getting off at 11th street, and about 10 for those used to boarding at Carroll. That is a lot of investment for a little amount of time. I would say we would get a much better return on our dollars if we tried to get people directly into the tourist triangle, making it as easy as possible for people to visit MC. For those going into Chicago, this project really wouldn't make any dissernable differences in their regular day.

[Dave]

Well, I would agree that it the train is going to be moved, moving it north males a lot more sense than moving it south.

However, agreeing again, moving it either way is going to make only a difference of a few minutes in commuting time, and the simple fact of the matter is that no one rides the South Shore for speed, they ride it for economy. If I was concerned with speed, I'd drive, and cut 30 minutes off the commuting time. Being concerned with ecomony, I ride the train and save about 50% in cost. Is anyone going to ride the train if NICTD has to double fares in order to pay for moving the tracks?

I was musing the other day about a high speed commuter boat. How fast could one make the 38 mile run from MC to Navy Pier? Probably a topic for another thread.

[Southsider2k12]

Cost is the #1 reason I ride the train, no doubt about it. #2 would be the fact that I don't see as many idiotic commuters as I do idiotic drivers, plus the ones I do see are much more harmess.

As for the boat idea, it came about a year ago, someone was talking about running it out of Gary I believe. The idea never was discussed again as far as I know. I am guessing costs were the big problem.

[JHeath]

Running the commuter boat in the winter months would be dangerous for many reasons. I'm guesing that idea never went anywhere because it would have to be seasonal...and a large enough watercraft to handle the waves on days when it's really nasty weather during the rest of the year.

[Ang]

And the insurance premiums would be through the roof to operate a high speed commuter boat-especially that distance. For one, I'm sure they'd be hard pressed to find a company willing to write such a risk. For two, the chances of a loss are increased due to silly mishaps and carelessness of passengers. For three, Lake Michigan is extremely unpredictable.
While it's a nice idea in theory, I don't think it would work very well. Probably be best to have a couple friends commute together across the lake in a private boat and share the cost of fuel.

[Roger Kaputnik]

All in all, it seems that the best plan would be to keep the CSS&SB on 11th, and make the station on 11th a real station. That could be a nice anchor to the downtown Franklin St area.

[mcstumper]

All in all, it seems that the best plan would be to keep the CSS&SB on 11th, and make the station on 11th a real station. That could be a nice anchor to the downtown Franklin St area.

Except:
a) no parking
slower trains
c) no place to build a boarding platform (which I am surprised isn't required under the ADA).

[Southsider2k12]

Except:
a) no parking
slower trains
c) no place to build a boarding platform (which I am surprised isn't required under the ADA).

On the third point, I believe the old stations are grandfathered in. All of the stations that have been improved all have platformed.

[Dave]

Except:
a) no parking
B) slower trains
c) no place to build a boarding platform (which I am surprised isn't required under the ADA).

a) If NICTD would use a few hundred thousand dollars of that $60 million to buy the vacant lot and the two houses on the same block as the train station and/or the dry cleaners on that block (and this would be a legitimate use of eminant domain if the owners were unwilling to sell, IMHO), I could see enough space there for upwards of 100 parking spaces, if not 200 spaces.

b) How much additional time is the train going to take going the two miles or so further if they move it to a new southern route past Ames Field? I doubt the train would be able to go appreciably faster on the southern route, as it is still going to be going through town at street level.

c) All that would be required for a boarding platform at the 11th street station would be closing 11th street for westbound traffic between Franklin and Pine, and building the platform where the westbound lane currently is.

[JHeath]

c) All that would be required for a boarding platform at the 11th street station would be closing 11th street for westbound traffic between Franklin and Pine, and building the platform where the westbound lane currently is.

With all of the complaining that people already do about the "confusing" traffic patterns in the north end of town, this would not be feasible.

[Ang]

A three level parking garage on the corner of Franklin and Pine would do fine.