[Roger Kaputnik]

Are the existing lots full? What about all the space on the SW block at the intersection of Franklin and 11th?

[Southsider2k12]

Are the existing lots full? What about all the space on the SW block at the intersection of Franklin and 11th?

The SW lot belongs to that interior place that is in the old tire place. The NW lot is also private for the couple of businesses that are next to the old trainstation. The lot behind those buildings and where the stop is now are always filled up.

[Ang]

Are the existing lots full? What about all the space on the SW block at the intersection of Franklin and 11th?

That lot belongs to John Tunstall-he who owns Studio II

[mcstumper]

There seems to be a misconception that if we don't move the South Shore south, we would save taxpayers $60 million.

To that I say, "HA!"

NICTD is essentially a government entity with deep roots in Lake and Porter Counties. Therefore, if the $60 million doesn't get spent here, it will get spent there. Why don't we sit here and brainstorm some more ways to meet all of our needs with the existing route, so that Valparaiso or Munster can have another $59 million to spend on a fancy new station when the extension is built.

Not to sound cynical, but come on. We're talking Lake County, people!

[Dave]

So let's get them to spend the money here, just so they spend it here?

I have to disagree with that. First, I personally don't think moving the train is a good idea for several reasons. I think the north end needs the train, and as a resident of the north end I like it right where it is. Taking it away is going to hurt businesses here and the residents here who use it to commute. I also like it because I think having a train running down the middle of the street is just plain cool -- where else do you ever see that? (I'll admit this is a matter of taste.)

Considering NITCD doesn't seem to be making tons of money as things are, I also think that their taking on the kind of major financial outlay moving the train would involve would, if anything, make them less viable than they are today, which would not be a good thing. IIRC they get substantial subsidies from the state and federal governments, and requiring additional taxpayer dollars to provide what is for all apparent purposes the same service is a bad idea. How long until some downstate politican or Washington congressman from some other state says something about the NITCD being a waste of money, seeing as it can't be run at a profit, and the whole thing gets shut down?

As has been mentioned in other threads on this board, there are a lot of people here in Michigan City and LaPorte County who are against change in any form. I'm not one of them. I think some proposed changes around here would be very good, one example of that being the proposed Intermodal facility (which I think is a no brainer). Other ideas -- expanded BP refinery (granted not in LaPorte, but still NW Indiana), waste transfer station, and this move the train plan, not good ideas.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[Southsider2k12]

There seems to be a misconception that if we don't move the South Shore south, we would save taxpayers $60 million.

To that I say, "HA!"

NICTD is essentially a government entity with deep roots in Lake and Porter Counties. Therefore, if the $60 million doesn't get spent here, it will get spent there. Why don't we sit here and brainstorm some more ways to meet all of our needs with the existing route, so that Valparaiso or Munster can have another $59 million to spend on a fancy new station when the extension is built.

Not to sound cynical, but come on. We're talking Lake County, people!

There might be a half truth to that sentiment. Usually big government projects like that involve matching funds, meaning that the Federal government puts up half the money, if the local entity can come up with the other half.

For me, the time saving just doesn't mean anything. The question is, is this project going to inject the money we put into it, back into Michigan City? If the answer is "no", it is a pork barrel waste project. If it is "yes", they we need to investigate how it is to be funded, and if it is feasible.

[Southsider2k12]

http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=41965.66

New South Shore Route Possible
The city can have the South Shore on the North End, if they work together. It does not have to cross Trail Creek. It will just take cooperation.

The city is trying to get the property along the north side of Eighth Street and along Michigan Boulevard, so, from the rails that end at East Eighth Street, the South Shore could follow the old right of way of the LE&W (Nickel Plate) that went to the old freight station on East Sixth Street. By going in back of the sewage plant, then curving along side of East Eighth Street, the tracks could go along the east side of Michigan Boulevard to just about the corner of Fourth Street, curving under the west end of the U.S. 12 bridge at Taylor Street. From there they would follow the old CI&L (Monon) tracks that went through Pioneer Lumber Co., then follow the old right of way, crossing Franklin Street south of Matey's, crossing the Amtrak line where the old Monon crossover was, and connecting to the old South Shore-Monon interchange, and picking up their own right of way to the west.

A loading platform and ticket office could be between Washington Street and Wabash Street, accessible from both streets. Parking could be on the northwest corner of Michigan and Wabash. The old gas station there is for sale now. If more parking is needed, maybe a deal can be worked with the outlet mall.

The city can have its river walk, and the area in between the walk and the railroad right of way could be used for other things.

Money and time have been wasted on high-priced studies and nothing has been done.

It would be necessary for the city, state highway and South Shore towork things out.

I doubt I will be around to see the tracks removed from 10th and 11th streets, which they have been talking about for the last 60-plus years.

Roger T. Storey

Michigan City

[Roger Kaputnik]

Ask, too, if the project will enable other projects to move ahead. For example, if condos are built to the water's edge, it makes many other projects impossible; therefore, condos to the water's edge are a BAD idea and should not be allowed.

[Southsider2k12]

I am going to throw this in here, because it fits the general theme here...

http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=47232.72

Study Tells Benefits Of Planning For Growth
Chambers told study should help governments develop financial policies.

Laurie Wink
The News-Dispatch

LA PORTE - Land use decisions made within the county directly impact how much money the county must spend for basic services, according to recent study.

The results of that study were presented Tuesday at a joint membership luncheon of the La Porte and Michigan City chambers of commerce.

Dan Botich, a member of the economic development consulting firm Cender & Co., highlighted the "Costs of Community Services Study" prepared for the La Porte County Soil and Water Conservation District.

Botich said the intent of the study is to give county, city and town planning groups a financial basis for developing strategies and policies.

"It may be one more study, but it's important information for land use planners and economic developers to use for more efficient development for taxpayers," Botich said.

It was completed with support from county commissioners

La Porte County is the only county in Indiana to prepare this type of study, Botich said. It complements the La Porte County Land Use Development Plan - now in its final stages of development - by looking at the financial implications of land use development decisions.

The La Porte County COCS study should be updated every five years, the consultant said, to account for revised tax policies.

Originally developed by the nonprofit American Farmland Trust, the planning tool was intended to be used to conserve or preserve farmland in Pennsylvania. Based on studies of more than 70 communities, the Pennsylvania COCS showed for every $1 of tax revenue received for residential property, another $1.15 is used in services such as schools, libraries and protection services.

On the other hand, commercial and industrial land requires only 29 cents in services and farmland - even with homesteads - only requires 37 cents in services.

Botich noted that each year, about 100,000 acres of Indiana farmland is converted to non-agricultural uses. From 1997 to 2002, Indiana ranked 11th on the list of states losing the most farmland, based on information from the American Farmland Trust.

La Porte Mayor Leigh Morris, who attended the luncheon, said he hears from people who think the city should become a bedroom community for nearby cities. From the study, he said, "It would be a pretty bad outcome."

Botich said the study was not anti-residential development but makes a case for being aware of the potential financial impact of permitting large residential developments.

The COCS study collected data on total tax revenues received by each city, town, township, school system, public library and the county in fiscal year 2005, as well as how the revenue was spent.

Botich said the study was not intended to make judgments about land use or taxing structures, nor predict the impacts of future land use development decisions. What the study does best, he said, is to help strike a balance between negative fiscal impacts of residential units and positive impact of other land uses.



Contact Laurie Wink at lwink@thenewsdispatch.com.

[Roger Kaputnik]

I really like the idea of keeping development where it already has happened: But we have to call it REdevelopment. There are many models for this, and one of the best i have seen is the near East Side of Indianapolis.

[Southsider2k12]

http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=30674.27

Warren Needs A Two-Way Franklin
Owner says he has blueprints for new hotel, and may start the project if traffic is allowed to return to both ways.

Jason Miller
The News-Dispatch

MICHIGAN CITY - When discussions arise about revitalizing Michigan City's downtown area, many different theories are thrown around about what's best to bring people back to Franklin Street.

One common idea, however, comes up in almost every conversation.

"The Warren Building isn't the only catalyst (in the revitalization of downtown), but it's certainly one of the major catalysts," Mayor Chuck Oberlie said. "There are a lot of things that need to be addressed, but a large, vacant structure like that is certainly a liability (to redevelopment)."

The Warren Building - in the 700 block of Franklin Street and built in 1926 - hasn't been used since the early 1990s, when Dan O'Brien bought it at tax sale.

Michigan City Planner John Pugh said O'Brien - who also owns Whittaker Woods Golf Course and O'Brien's Restaurant in New Buffalo - has kept the building maintained and up to code.

But its old, seemingly run-down facade has become - along with the long-abandoned South Shore rail station on 11th Street - a poster child for what many lament as the death of the downtown.

"That's one reason we hope he'll either come forward with a plan or sell the property," Pugh said. "I get inquiries about buying that building and I refer them to Dan. People have offered us a lot of money."

O'Brien has come to city officials with plans for the building in the past, and this week told The News-Dispatch he plans to turn the old building into a 52-suite hotel, possibly with a restaurant or bar inside, at a cost of "at least a couple million dollars."

He added one caveat to his plan for the six story building, however.

"If the city starts rebuilding Franklin Street, then I'll start the project," O'Brien said. "I've got a contractor and I've had blueprints in my hand for almost two years."

O'Brien pointed to two-way traffic as something he'd like to see on Franklin.

"I know businesses will start coming in when they make it two-way," he said. "It's things like that I'd like to see."

Oberlie said he hopes the possibility of making Franklin Street a two-way street might entice new development. The idea is one of the many that were included in a recently presented Andrews University study of the North End.

"It's something we're planning to look at throughout the winter," Oberlie said. "It seems to be the most affordable option and whether real or perceived, the sentiment is there that this is something the people are interested in."

Contact reporter Jason Miller at jmiller@thenewsdispatch.com.

[Roger Kaputnik]

Oh, no, another panacea...

[Dave]

Can it be said too many times that Oberlie was the city planner (or whatever the job title is/was) when the whole Franklin Square / "Let's block access to the lake with a huge library building and a new city hall in the middle of the street" idea was implemented?

I know a lot of cities experimented with the whole "downtown mall" idea in the 70's, but everyone else realized it was a bad idea and reversed it all 20 years ago. As far as I can tell, this is another example of people, and politicians in particular, being unable to say, "You know, I really screwed that up. Let's see what we can do to fix it."

[Ang]

Can it be said too many times that Oberlie was the city planner (or whatever the job title is/was) when the whole Franklin Square / "Let's block access to the lake with a huge library building and a new city hall in the middle of the street" idea was implemented?

I thought Oberlie was the City Controller-He was when Brillson was in office. Did he do both jobs before?

[Roger Kaputnik]

Oberlie has been involved in City gov't and various leadership positions for forty years--and the fool voters elect him and reelect him. Oberlie?! Not again!

[Southsider2k12]

Intersting to note, I have bounced around the web looking for a list of the offices Mayor Oberlie has held, and there really isn't one. If anyone has a simple offices held and the years they were held, I would love to see it. I just find it odd, that it isn't out there for a mayor.

[Ang]

I just know he was the City Controller before he was Mayor because I had some business with his office when I was at Plant Planning. I never actually worked with him, it was the para that I dealt with, but I remember being there and Oberlie and a bunch of other city bigwigs came out of his office (including Shiela) while I was there.
As far as what he did before Controller, I have no idea.

[JHeath]

I don't have the specific dates, but I'm sure we can find them somewhere. Maybe someone who is closer to him would be willing to post that info.

However...he was, in fact, the City planner during the time when Frnaklin Square was put into place. He was also the controller for a number of years prior to becoming our Mayor.

With all due respect, those of us who wanted to see a change in our City's leadership should have gotten out there to vote in the primary, or started getting other interested in making a change. In MC, it seems like the primary IS the election...esp since we have so few republicans or independents running for office. (btw, good luck guys!).

This post has been edited by JHeath: Oct 23 2007, 12:44 PM

[Roger Kaputnik]

amen, amen

[lovethiscity]

I thought Oberlie was the City Controller-He was when Brillson was in office. Did he do both jobs before?

Oberlie started in the Michigan City planning dept. in the late 60's moving on to head the planning dept. in the very early 70's staying there until the early 80's when he left to head the chamber of commerce. Oberlie left the chamber to head the North West Indiana Forum. He was fired for unknown reasons in 92 and that is when he became controller under Bob Behler. So yes he was the City Planner placing a Library in the middle of Franklin. On a more silly note I found a News Dispatch headline in the Indiana room of the library from the 70's that claimed "City planner Oberlie says we are very close on acquiring BLOCKSOM" shows how far we have come under brilliant leadership.