[Southsider2k12]

http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...;ArticleID=5612

Mayor: Action Soon On Hiring Issue

Jason Miller
The News-Dispatch

MICHIGAN CITY - A resolution aimed at minority hiring in the Michigan City Fire Department and within the city should come soon, Mayor Chuck Oberlie said at Tuesday night's City Council meeting.

"We're going to take a look at ordinances to see if we can level the playing field," he said. "My staff is reviewing the composition of various city departments. We should have something in November."

Oberlie said attorneys from the city and the council are reviewing a 1978 consent decree that says the roster of the city's fire department should mirror the racial makeup of the city.

The local NAACP chapter has threatened to sue the city over noncompliance with the decree, which was issued on the heels of a lawsuit filed by several black firefighters.

Questions concerning the validity of the decades-old decree arose more than a year ago when the city changed the fire hiring ordinance to give preference to city residents and eliminate certain advantages for applicants with fire science and fire fighting knowledge.

The majority of the council, as well as Oberlie, believes the decree is still in effect.

"The City Council has an interest in making sure compliance is enforced," Council Attorney Jim Meyer said.

While the city is being sued over the consent decree, the issue of minority hiring has plagued the city for years, and is being brought up again in light of concerns over fire-department hiring.

Glen Wilson, 803 Spring St., said Tuesday he never sees "black bodies" working on public works projects like street paving and sewer jobs. He said the black community isn't content with having a "token here and a token there."

"It seems like a conspiracy with the unions and the political muscle to exclude some people," said Wilson, who is black. "Give us some idea, or something to bite on. Or is it just going to be business as usual?"

Council President Willie Milsap, a black firefighter, said Tuesday he sees progress.

"You have to figure out where you've been before you figure out where you're going," he said. "We're finally on the last chapter. I'm confident we can finally put this to bed and all move forward in the right decision for Michigan City."

[Roger Kaputnik]

Am I the only one who thinks that if a guy does not do well on the entrance exam, he should not be hired? I long for the day when a man is judged by the actual score on the test, and not by the points added because of the color of his skin. And please do not give me the upbringing argument; when a person is old enough to take the exam, he is old enough to know to get help preparing if needed.

[Ang]

I agree with Roger on this.

[RedDevilMC]

Let me correct some of the statements that have been made. This refers to the Fire Department. The ranking is comprised of several things: Test, Physical agility, interview, military experience, residency. You get points for all of those items. I can tell you that the highest scores were not ranked number 1, 2, or 3. Being ranked in the top 5 doesn't mean you will be the best or most qualified firefighter. That could mean they liked you better in the interview. I get upset because I know and understand. There are several African Americans that are on the that list of over 55 that have met the "Qualified applicants list". They also tested over 85% but without military experience or the best interview they were ranked lower.

Please be careful in how you read the media. I'm sick of the term most qualified. These are points in several different areas. I'm a test taker, so If I score 100% am I the most qualified? Also, remember all new hires have to go through mandatory training. No one is looking for a handout just a fair shake. The ordinance has to be changed in some manner to make sure this doesn't continue but I'm tired of this whole coming across as if black people cannot pass or are not qualified, that's not the case.

[JHeath]

Let me correct some of the statements that have been made. This refers to the Fire Department. The ranking is comprised of several things: Test, Physical agility, interview, military experience, residency. You get points for all of those items. I can tell you that the highest scores were not ranked number 1, 2, or 3. Being ranked in the top 5 doesn't mean you will be the best or most qualified firefighter. That could mean they liked you better in the interview. I get upset because I know and understand. There are several African Americans that are on the that list of over 55 that have met the "Qualified applicants list". They also tested over 85% but without military experience or the best interview they were ranked lower.

Please be careful in how you read the media. I'm sick of the term most qualified. These are points in several different areas. I'm a test taker, so If I score 100% am I the most qualified? Also, remember all new hires have to go through mandatory training. No one is looking for a handout just a fair shake. The ordinance has to be changed in some manner to make sure this doesn't continue but I'm tired of this whole coming across as if black people cannot pass or are not qualified, that's not the case.

I realize this is not the case, but you would have to agree that as a whole, our City does not have a racially diverse workforce. I don't believe that race should play a factor in any part of this...but the way it appears to the general public right now, it certainly seems as though it does.

[Ang]

I too realize that's not the case. And I realize more goes into being on the fire department than just taking a test. I dated an MC Fire Fighter for a long time and I fully understand what is involved.
As far as selecting the best candidate goes, I don't believe that should even be an issue of race. If the entire department was made up of blacks and hispanics I wouldn't care as long as they were the most qualified.
If I was standing outside while my home was on fire, I'm not going to think, "Oh look, they have an equal number of races on this department" I'm going to think, "Dear Lord, let these people know what they're doing and save my house."
I'm not arguing against this lawsuit. I do believe everyone should be treated the same and have an equal shot. I just hope they're not limiting the amount of minorities so as not to "exceed the recommended amount." In other words, pass up a highly qualified black guy because then there would be one too many.

[JHeath]

...I do believe everyone should be treated the same and have an equal shot. I just hope they're not limiting the amount of minorities so as not to "exceed the recommended amount." In other words, pass up a highly qualified black guy because then there would be one too many.

Exactly!

[Roger Kaputnik]

Red Devil, I would be in favor of removing subjective criteria and making it as objective as possible. I am not familiar with the details of the testing and selection; maybe a lawsuit is the only way to remove those factors that allow this subjectivity. I am NOT in favor of quotas, or as I like to call them, limits. Anyone who uses race as a criterion should leave the dept.

[RedDevilMC]

I agree. The reality is that many of us (African Americans) qualified or not didn't have the opportunity to get hired unless you knew someone. I still have that problem especially in Laporte County. I have applied for many positions in the last year and never received a phone call or interview.

I agree we need qualified individuals. Here are a few items. We have over 45 individuals on the current list that are qualified. We have several African Americans and a few women I believe. They are all qualified to serve and protect us. So, what should we do with this consent decree with that being said? We know we have not met many of the items that were stated in this judgement. That's the big question. All I know is that there have been many cases where someone was overlooked because they were Black or because they had a friend or family member in mind for the job. SO there are arguments on both side of the fence. I just happen to be Black and had to experience it first hand by being an Electrical Engineer which is male dominated with low minority representation.

I would never hire someone just because they are Black or White. Hard decisions coming up...stay tuned.


My two cents.

[Ang]

From what I understand, when it comes to getting a job on the MC Fire Department, it really doesn't matter who you are, it's always about who you know.

One question though: When the Fire Chief position was held by a black man, were the issues now issues then? Or has this all come about since Ralph Martin retired?

This post has been edited by Ang: Oct 22 2007, 02:42 PM

[JHeath]

From what I understand, when it comes to getting a job on the MC Fire Department, it really doesn't matter who you are, it's always about who you know.

One question though: When the Fire Chief position was held by a black man, were the issues now issues then? Or has this all come about since Ralph Martin retired?

No, as far as I know, this issue has been around for a while. The fire dept. just seems to get most of the publicity about it, but I think it's going on in all of the City's depts.

[RedDevilMC]

That's correct most of the Black hirings happened directly after the Decree when Brooks was the Fire Chief. Once the Fire Merit Commission was put in place in the late 80's the hiring was next to none.

[Southsider2k12]

Of all jobs that should include merit based hirings, the ones that put peoples lives on the line are the last ones. I think someone said it eariler, but the best people on the job, period. If my house is on fire, I don't care who the hell shows up, they just better know how to do their jobs, and be better at it than anyone else. That's all I care about. They could be purple for all I care, as long as they can fight a blaze, that's all that matters to me.

Big picture-wise, this might make an interesting race discussion if people are interested.

The question is, in 2007 do these programs do more harm than good, or are they an important part of correcting history?

[RedDevilMC]

Still,
I ask everyone, what does best person or most qualified mean when most of these people that are on the list have no fire experience? They took a basic math, english, logic test. They went through an interview and did a physical agility test. So they are all qualified. Does that mean because I scored the highest on the test that I am most qualified?

How do we correct the injustice (nepotism) that was done for all of those years where they didn't hire black people who were qualified but did not have the connections within the department? That's why they went to court in the first place.

[JHeath]

http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=39809.25

Consent Decree May Be Updated

Laurie Wink
The News-Dispatch

MICHIGAN CITY - Proposed changes in Michigan City's ordinance concerning the hiring of firefighters will be considered at the common council meeting Wednesday.

Modifications to the Fire Merit Ordinance now are being proposed to clarify the ordinance and remain in compliance with the original consent decree. The modification would require all eligible fire fighter candidates to be divided into two lists, the first one made up of minority candidates based on race, color, religion, sex or national origin. Candidates from the minority pool would be hired first until the percentage of hires approximated the percentage of minorities in the city population.

If either pool is depleted before a balance can be achieved, the city will launch a marketing effort to recruit potential candidates. Once candidates pass the series of required tests - written and agility tests and an oral interview - the minority list will be used to hire two out of every three candidates for open positions in the Michigan City Fire Department.

Another modification would allow candidates to remain on the eligibility list for up to two years, instead of requiring retesting every year.

City council liaisons Pat Boy and Phil Jankowski presented the amendments at Monday's meeting of the Fire Merit Commission in council chambers. Council president Willie Milsap and Michigan City mayor Chuck Oberlie were also at the meeting.

The original ordinance was developed according to a consent decree issued in 1978 by the U.S. District Court of the Northern District of Indiana, in response to a lawsuit filed by African Americans against the city. The consent decree said Michigan City's hiring process could consider a candidate's race, color, religion, sex or national origin in order to compensate for a racial imbalance in the composition of city employees compared with the composition of the city population.

The city attorney maintained records from 1978 through 1985 to ensure that minorities made up 22 percent of city employees, as determined by the local Human Rights Commission.

Pam Krause, attorney for the Fire Merit Commission, said that although it was still in effect, the consent decree was forgotten over the past few years, since none of the fire department employees retired and the city had imposed a hiring freeze for budgetary reasons.

[Roger Kaputnik]

Consent decree was forgotten?!

[Southsider2k12]

http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=50239.16

Milsap Offers Amendment For Hiring
Council president says it is an effort to ensure equality for fire department.

Jason Miller
The News-Dispatch

MICHIGAN CITY - City Council President Willie Milsap doesn't look at his proposed amendment to the city's fire department hiring ordinance as a racial quota.

The longtime firefighter says it's simply an effort at equality.

"It can't be a quota when we have a federal judgment telling us this needs to be done," Milsap said Wednesday after the council heard his amendment on first reading. "I just want everybody to be patient. This is going to happen, but it won't happen in a day."

Milsap's amendment is aimed at making sure the city's fire merit commission hires minorities to fill a number of positions on the department that would equal the percentage of minorities in Michigan City.

A federal judgment issued in 1978 has been neglected since the early 1980s, Milsap said, and the council and Mayor Chuck Oberlie are trying to put the judgment back in place.

Although Milsap doesn't look at the issue as a mandate for racial quotas, he and council attorney Jim Meyer understand it could lead to reverse discrimination lawsuits filed by white applicants who feel they were passed over for hire because they aren't a minority.

"Nothing can stop anybody from filing a suit," Meyer said, "but the consent judgment could be a defense to that plan."

Milsap agreed.

"The difference is that we have a judgment," he said. "It's not negotiable. If we're going to err, which I don't think we are, I'd rather err in favor of a federal judgment."

A group of five local attorneys studied the judgment and relating legal precedence to decide if the decree was still valid after some 30 years of inactivity.

Milsap said the "dream team" of lawyers that included Meyer, corporation attorneys John Espar and Jennifer Evans, merit commission attorney Pamela Krause and another attorney each agreed the judgment remains valid.

"That's five lawyers who all said this is good," he said. "Five lawyers."

Contact Jason Miller at jmiller@thenewsdispatch.com.

[Roger Kaputnik]

Hmmmmmm.

[Southsider2k12]

http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sectio...amp;TM=41327.17

Council Tables Hiring Ordinance
Former councilman calls proposed changes a quota system for city fire department.

Jason Miller
The News-Dispatch

MICHIGAN CITY - Former Michigan City Councilman Beryle Burgwald said Tuesday night a proposed change to the city's fire hiring ordinance is nothing more than a quota system.

And the council's attorney agreed with him.

Jim Meyer, though, said in the case of the Michigan City ordinance, such a system would not prove unconstitutional.

"I won't disagree with Mr. Burgwald that generally quotas have been found unlawful," Meyer, the council attorney, said Tuesday. "But federal law is pretty clear that once a consent judgment is in place ... it continues in full force and effect unless it's satisfied or a judge changes it or dismisses it."

Council members on Tuesday tabled a new ordinance on second reading to give themselves a chance to shore up the final draft, which contains several amendments.

Board members decided to change the hiring ordinance earlier this year in light of a federal 1979 consent decree requiring the fire department's minority makeup mirrors that of the city, as a whole.

The city, according to some officials and the local NAACP chapter, has been in violation of the decree for some 30 years because the department hasn't employed a commensurate number of minorities.

The NAACP has threatened to sue the city in light of the decree.

Burgwald, who was a City Council member when the board drafted the original fire merit ordinance, said Tuesday the ordinance in its new mode would go against the notion of merit hiring.

"When we wrote this, we meant it to be based on a merit system without any non-merit consideration," Burgwald said. "It's unfortunate since it went into operation, it's been so watered down ... that today it ceases to be a true merit system."

Last year, the council changed the fire merit ordinance to take out consideration given to applicants with fire science knowledge and experience, and replace those considerations with points for city residency.

The new draft would, under the guise of the decree, change the system again to hire based on race.

"It will be a quota system, plain and simple," Burgwald said. "If you're going to do that, you should strike out the word 'merit'."

Contact Jason Miller at jmiller@thenewsdispatch.com.

[Roger Kaputnik]

If everyone in the pool is considered to be eligible for hire, why isn't a lottery used to select the new guys?